Obama Nation

[s70turbo1998]

Who do you think employs the middle class? Who are the entrepreneurs and innovators of modern society? Small businesses that make 350k a year (and that IS small) will have their taxes increase. This will stifle economic growth as companies find ways to reduce the impacts of the taxes. Corporations are not bad. A few are bad, but that doesn't provide for impeding entrepreneurship and innovation, which brought the U.S. to its commanding position on the global scale. Unfortunately that position is more fantasy than reality with the tumultuous deficit spending and ever tightening grasp on an economy that grew under a laissez faire approach.

[Pops Racer]

I think we're missing the main point here... fox is full of sh!t, and the republican population refuses to watch anything else, so eventually they are bound to be full of sh!t as well

Your drinking the koolaid again. Your Commander in Chief is anything but. Hes a word smith, forever campaigning, and selling his snake oil. If the country voted now he'd be out on his ass. And so would his politburo.

Fox is kicking every other networks ass. Period, by 6-1. Thats a lotta pissed off conservatives if you ask me. and probably a bunch of pissed off Dems also. And i"m betting independents.

WHY? Because we got sick of half truths from the 89% left leaning media. Research the numbers and report back.

I say again, for the umpteenth time, I'll take my chances with my traditionalist views. You can worship at the alter of Obama and his leftist cohorts all you want. I'll take those wacky guys Jefferson, Madison, and Washington. Gun toting, God fearing, right wing nuts.

[weekendwarrior]

Who do you think employs the middle class? Who are the entrepreneurs and innovators of modern society? Small businesses that make 350k a year (and that IS small) will have their taxes increase. This will stifle economic growth as companies find ways to reduce the impacts of the taxes. Corporations are not bad. A few are bad, but that doesn't provide for impeding entrepreneurship and innovation, which brought the U.S. to its commanding position on the global scale. Unfortunately that position is more fantasy than reality with the tumultuous deficit spending and ever tightening grasp on an economy that grew under a laissez faire approach.

sooooo thats why most large us "born" corporations exported their production overseas huh? makes a lotta sense

[volvotool]

Your drinking the koolaid again. Your Commander in Chief is anything but. Hes a word smith, forever campaigning, and selling his snake oil. If the country voted now he'd be out on his ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD. And so would his politburo.

Fox is kicking every other networks ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD. Period, by 6-1. Thats a lotta pissed off conservatives if you ask me. and probably a bunch of pissed off Dems also. And i"m betting independents.

WHY? Because we got sick of half truths from the 89% left leaning media. Research the numbers and report back.

I say again, for the umpteenth time, I'll take my chances with my traditionalist views. You can worship at the alter of Obama and his leftist cohorts all you want. I'll take those wacky guys Jefferson, Madison, and Washington. Gun toting, God fearing, right wing nuts.

So much I'm dumb, so little time.

Fox is the most popular cable news outlet. Old-fashioned broadcast news, (ABC, NBC, CBS,) despite historically low ratings numbers, still draws more viewers than does Fox. Broadcast news is still where most Americans turn for their news, old-fashioned as that might seem.

I'll take those wacky guys Jefferson, Madison, and Washington. Gun toting, God fearing, right wing nuts.

This is hilarious. And sad. Tragic, really. The people who want to 'take America back' don't even know where we came from. :(

[s70turbo1998]

Weekend, you use the same rhetoric any other anti-corporation sheep uses to argue against big business. Companies that produce overseas are not small business. Companies that produce overseas do so because the US government provides incentives to do so, such as subsidies and lax trade restrictions. There isn't any data out there to support one way or the other, as most of it is reported by the companies to the government.

We are a part of a global economy, and overseas productions/services are beneficial to business. Saying otherwise is outright ignorant. Raising taxes in an economy where small business is struggling to stay alive will inhibit domestic job growth. Why hire an American for 40k, 50k, 60k when you can do so much cheaper overseas? This not only keeps the business running but also keeps those working for it working. China has even noticed this and is moving towards its own form of capitalism. Makes you think...

[flyfishing3]

[s70turbo1998]

Mike, you embody "a picture's worth 1,000 words". Every single one you post is hysterical and oh so appropriate :lol:

[flyfishing3]

;)

[weekendwarrior]

Weekend, you use the same rhetoric any other anti-corporation sheep uses to argue against big business. Companies that produce overseas are not small business. Companies that produce overseas do so because the US government provides incentives to do so, such as subsidies and lax trade restrictions. There isn't any data out there to support one way or the other, as most of it is reported by the companies to the government.

We are a part of a global economy, and overseas productions/services are beneficial to business. Saying otherwise is outright ignorant. Raising taxes in an economy where small business is struggling to stay alive will inhibit domestic job growth. Why hire an American for 40k, 50k, 60k when you can do so much cheaper overseas? This not only keeps the business running but also keeps those working for it working. China has even noticed this and is moving towards its own form of capitalism. Makes you think...

Yes, but absolutely not beneficial to the citizen, they exported a tremendous amount of jobs/goods production to china, india, mexico, etc. All for what!? Higher profits?! Do those profits come back to US? no Do they go to the rich investors and CEOs? yes IT IS A SOLID FACT THAT EXPORTING BUSINESS PRODUCTION OUT OF COUNTRY HURTS THE COUNTRY, you can argue all you want but in the end there is less jobs for americans, the country imports more than it exports, and corporations get rich. You're forgetting that there should be a balance between import and export, the more you export the more $$ you make. China has been doing their own form of capitalism for well over 10 years, you're way late there bud. The tax cuts should expire and a new set should be in put place, give tax cuts to businesses producing on us soil to the middle class and to the small business owner, and tax the businesses outsourcing jobs overseas. Like i said to start out the cuts benefit the wealthiest the most, not the small business owners and not the average citizen, its this imbalance that makes me not want to support the renewal. Just saying tax cuts are awsome, but only if they're balanced.

[s70turbo1998]

Ok ignoring overseas production (entirely different issue that is having to do withtrade regulations and lax enforcement), the expiring tax cuts cannot just expire. My problem is that this administration will probably do just that. The "wealthy" standard is now set at 250k. Flow through organizations typically reach this level of income. Flow through organizations range from any sort of local business such as restaurants and will be hit hard by this expiration if something is not done to adjust accordingly.

With regards to big fat corporations, they certainly earned it. While it may be touted that tax revenue on these entities will relieve a large portion of the national debt, I find that hard to believe given the current administration's flagrant spending. That needs to be addressed first, and I'd rather conservatives handle that aspect of government. Feel good social programs are awesome, just not in the weakest economy in decades.

[volvotool]

With regards to big fat corporations, they certainly earned it.

Increasingly, they 'earn' it by rigging the system to their advantage. In this country, it's usually by shutting out labor. Which is why so much of our manufacturing is now in China. poke you, American worker!

While it may be touted that tax revenue on these entities will relieve a large portion of the national debt, I find that hard to believe given the current administration's flagrant spending.

The money that corporations earn under the generous umbrella of protection afforded by our democracy is largely untaxed. They aren't paying their fair share, it's as simple as that. America was a better place when the corporate tax rate was higher. Better schools, better infrastructure, better standard of living for working stiffs. Sorry if that term offends anyone here, but, delusional thinking aside, that's what the majority of us are. Working stiffs. People who trade their labor for money. To your second point, the only people who think we need to rein in spending during an economic downturn of this magnitude are the very people who drove our economy into the ditch to begin with: The Wall Street moneyed elite.

That needs to be addressed first, and I'd rather conservatives handle that aspect of government. Feel good social programs are awesome, just not in the weakest economy in decades.

Contrary to popular belief, conservative Presidents in recent history are the ones who have run up big deficits. It's the Democrats who have been more fiscally responsible. The economy is "weak" (what an understatement) right now because the GOP broke it. Now you want to get us out of the mess they created using the same methods that caused this debacle? These aren't "feel good" social programs. Banks aren't lending and business isn't spending. At the very least, we need government confidence expressed thru government spending to get the economy going again. At the worst, we need to do it to avoid the social unrest that will occur if the economy collapses completely.

[Zappo]

Tax rates were higher during the Reagan administration than than they will be even if these tax cuts expire at the end of the year.

[weekendwarrior]

Increasingly, they 'earn' it by rigging the system to their advantage. In this country, it's usually by shutting out labor. Which is why so much of our manufacturing is now in China. poke you, American worker!

The money that corporations earn under the generous umbrella of protection afforded by our democracy is largely untaxed. They aren't paying their fair share, it's as simple as that. America was a better place when the corporate tax rate was higher. Better schools, better infrastructure, better standard of living for working stiffs. Sorry if that term offends anyone here, but, delusional thinking aside, that's what the majority of us are. Working stiffs. People who trade their labor for money. To your second point, the only people who think we need to rein in spending during an economic downturn of this magnitude are the very people who drove our economy into the ditch to begin with: The Wall Street moneyed elite.

Contrary to popular belief, conservative Presidents in recent history are the ones who have run up big deficits. It's the Democrats who have been more fiscally responsible. The economy is "weak" (what an understatement) right now because the GOP broke it. Now you want to get us out of the mess they created using the same methods that caused this debacle? These aren't "feel good" social programs. Banks aren't lending and business isn't spending. At the very least, we need government confidence expressed thru government spending to get the economy going again. At the worst, we need to do it to avoid the social unrest that will occur if the economy collapses completely.

My friend you said it perrrrrfectly.

[volvotool]

My friend you said it perrrrrfectly.

I'm just sorry that it's true. I'll never quite understand why the very people who would stand to gain the most from slightly liberal Democratic government are the very ones who are cheering the loudest for a radical GOP/Tea Party government. I have to give the GOP/Tea Party radicals credit, though, they are very good at playing their base time and again. You'd think people would start to see thru whole "outrage-du-jour" thing (Ground Zero Mosque! Grrrrr!) and figure it out, but there's no sign of that yet. It's like an endless game of political 3-card Monte and the suckers never stop coming... :(

[Kevin.]

They never stop because we keep on getting "saviors" that everyone wants, but they actually just fuck up everything

I acknowledge your point about conservatives, but riddle me this: who has run up the highest deficit in the history of our nation?

We talk about billions of dollars like its nothing.

All of this money to "fix" the problem and we're getting shit for it.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've been duped.