550 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 You may not be at the limits of 4.4 yet but don't you think you will reach them eventually? I dont think he is really near the limits of 4.4... but the limits of what the 4.4 version of TT can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 What I meant ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 A friend has a tuner that he has been using for years but doesnt tune anymore for a living. He says its better to do a road tune and then hit the Dyno. So after the engine is broken in im going to pick him up and head out for a few hrs and let him street tune while I drive. Im also going to hit the dyno for no more than an 1 hr - 1.5hrs tops at a time. I would rather go a few times and tune the car that way than spending 3hrs beating the car up with heat soak on the dyno as alot of people do.I think the only person that comes out ahead with that is the tuners wallet. It also gives a chance to see whats working. Will see how it goes? That sounds like the perfect recipe! +1 You need to get on a load dyno that the operator will let you dial into every load cell and tune your ign perfectly, some dynojets can, dynodynamics can and the best would be dynapack(if you can find one it will cost you some money but it is without a doubt the best way to tune), not sure about mustangs, but if you can find one that's only 2wd it would be worth it tune fwd for the time being. Can you disable the knock sensors completly? If you can I would strongly reccomend it, use the detcans you have and start conservative on timing and you will quickly find out what timing your motors likes and doesn't like at every load range, seriously tho get on a load dyno without the knock sensors. Fyi majority of tuners don't ever use knock sensors at all. No way I know of to disable the knocks sensors. I'm gonna play with pulling more & more timing in that 2nd map, I have nothing to lose but time, it seems. True, avoiding the torque mountain in the midrange would help keep the timing at higher revs. getting my custom intake back on should help with that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Assuming you are up for the option of disabling the knock sensors what do you think about this.... Removing them completly and or unplugging them will cause the ecu to probally pull timing the whole time, but how about removing both, torque a bolt and nut with washers on both knock sensors to oem torque specs, run a ground wire of course so the ecu thinks they are hooked up then set them out of the way somewhere away from any vibrations and noises they could pick up. Its worth a shot and I would defietly give it a shot if I was in your position, you will instantly see what happens in your timing logs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Assuming you are up for the option of disabling the knock sensors what do you think about this.... Removing them completly and or unplugging them will cause the ecu to probally pull timing the whole time, but how about removing both, torque a bolt and nut with washers on both knock sensors to oem torque specs, run a ground wire of course so the ecu thinks they are hooked up then set them out of the way somewhere away from any vibrations and noises they could pick up. Its worth a shot and I would defietly give it a shot if I was in your position, you will instantly see what happens in your timing logs... Robbie - I'm not sure why I would do that - when it pulls timing as it did on the dyno - it's 'cos there's detonation. I don't want to melt my pistons. Once it' a little warmer out, I can hook up my det can again & listen during a pull or two. The timing is reasonable for the most part (except for peak torque, perhaps) on the highway pulls I've done, I just really wanted to know WHAT my WHP actually is/was, at the levels I see on the road, that was my primary frustraton!!! I'm still gonna play more with reducing requested timing to see what I can gain from highway logging. The new head with the Enem cams is going on in just a few weeks, and my custom intake goes back on this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I was under the impression you were having timing pulled from the knock sensors being to sensitive, if it truely is knock then you just need to completly tone down the ign map and work your way up on a load dyno, you will won't tune that ign map succesfully on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I was under the impression you were having timing pulled from the knock sensors being to sensitive, if it truely is knock then you just need to completly tone down the ign map and work your way up on a load dyno, you will won't tune that ign map succesfully on the street. The timing pull was only on the dyno! I don't get that extreme timing pull on the street. Both maps I posted are based on stock maps, just moved around due to the 3" MAF. The issue with that is of course figuring where the (previously) high load values really need to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 +1 You need to get on a load dyno that the operator will let you dial into every load cell and tune your ign perfectly Most mustang dynos allow for steady state/load holding operation. What you are suggesting is impossible though since heat management is an issue when tuning steady state, and you need to be able to control you fuel and ignition trim based on coolant and intake air temps. So not much point, since he can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 another fail point of tt, sorry to hear =[ well good luck, hopefully we see some good news soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I would also suggest to use a different wastage actuator spring. Something closer to 9 or 10 psi max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Either way if the cooling on that dyno is as bad as Hussein said, and its obviously heavy load then it is no surprise the results are as bad as they were. And makes the dyno useless. All that extra timing he sees on the road is definitely a good amount of power that we can only guess at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 I would also suggest to use a different wastage actuator spring. Something closer to 9 or 10 psi max. I have the original HRC 10psi actuator - I swapped it for the 15psi because the Apexi had trouble modulating the boost over 16-18psi, I had to run very high duty cycles, and couldn't get really stable boost control. One aspect of this whole thing, timing aside, is that with the stock manifold, boost builds really fast at part throttle, and hits max load cells well before one would expect, then drops back - I'm hoping to get my log manifold (weather permitting, it's snowing today ) back on this weekend & do some logs with that, when I originally tried it, it felt much more linear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 One aspect of this whole thing, timing aside, is that with the stock manifold, boost builds really fast at part throttle, and hits max load cells well before one would expect, then drops back - I'm hoping to get my log manifold (weather permitting, it's snowing today ) back on this weekend & do some logs with that, when I originally tried it, it felt much more linear. With my new intake manifold, boost comes instantly with no hesitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 With my new intake manifold, boost comes instantly with no hesitation. You bought the short (6") or longer runner version? In my case, I need to reduce mid range, as the Garrett 60-1 compressor delivers far greater CFM's than the TD06 20g I had previously at any given boost level. If you're using a stock TD04HL based turbo, it's not going to be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 You bought the short (6") or longer runner version? In my case, I need to reduce mid range, as the Garrett 60-1 compressor delivers far greater CFM's than the TD06 20g I had previously at any given boost level. If you're using a stock TD04HL based turbo, it's not going to be an issue. Long runner version, I believe Aaron saw a 30% flow increase across all runners over the stock manifold when he compared flow bench data. I am using a BorgWarner K24, which I am told is pretty effficent up to the low 20's in terms of psi. I have yet to find a compressor map for it but some posts on here indicate it flows to 537 cfm but without a map it doesn't help much ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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