Gideon35T Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I don't either. But going back before "our" time, weren't nuclear drills popular? Cold war time frame? Is that really any different? Be scared kiddies, some asshole a million miles away is going to turn your town into dust at a moments notice. Erik's point about insurance also holds true with a lot of aspects of our society. It seems that the growing trend is fear and precaution driven by insurance. Some of the simplest examples being trampolines, or allowing other people to use your property. I guess "use at your own risk" isn't good enough. “logical fallacy of misleading vividness” - The odds of being involved in a nuclear incident are low and the odds of survival by hiding under kindling is low but the vivid perception of the results drives fear induced reaction. So, the question becomes less about if the fear driven response is valid and more a question of the quantity and quality of responses effects us. The same goes for the sacrificing of our rights for "security" and/or the illusion of it. At what point have we sacrificed too much? "Militarizing our schools I think is going to have a negative psychological affect on the young ones, and ultimately on society" - A very true statement but it's all about that cutoff level. What I find infinetely more scary is the realization that many of these things applied to schools AND society are not safety driven but agenda driven. Some interesting research is to look at how schools in Austria changed after the country voted to be annexed by Hitlers Germany. I'm NOT saying we have Nazi schools but I am saying that there's interesting parallels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 What the eff are you talking about, man. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 “logical fallacy of misleading vividness” - The odds of being involved in a nuclear incident are low and the odds of survival by hiding under kindling is low but the vivid perception of the results drives fear induced reaction. So, the question becomes less about if the fear driven response is valid and more a question of the quantity and quality of responses effects us. The same goes for the sacrificing of our rights for "security" and/or the illusion of it. At what point have we sacrificed too much? "Militarizing our schools I think is going to have a negative psychological affect on the young ones, and ultimately on society" - A very true statement but it's all about that cutoff level. What I find infinetely more scary is the realization that many of these things applied to schools AND society are not safety driven but agenda driven. Some interesting research is to look at how schools in Austria changed after the country voted to be annexed by Hitlers Germany. I'm NOT saying we have Nazi schools but I am saying that there's interesting parallels. What the eff are you talking about, man. hahaha. i was just letting that sit there like a SBD. not even sure where to start on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyXXL Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 “logical fallacy of misleading vividness” - The odds of being involved in a nuclear incident are low and the odds of survival by hiding under kindling is low but the vivid perception of the results drives fear induced reaction. So, the question becomes less about if the fear driven response is valid and more a question of the quantity and quality of responses effects us. The same goes for the sacrificing of our rights for "security" and/or the illusion of it. At what point have we sacrificed too much? "Militarizing our schools I think is going to have a negative psychological affect on the young ones, and ultimately on society" - A very true statement but it's all about that cutoff level. What I find infinetely more scary is the realization that many of these things applied to schools AND society are not safety driven but agenda driven. Some interesting research is to look at how schools in Austria changed after the country voted to be annexed by Hitlers Germany. I'm NOT saying we have Nazi schools but I am saying that there's interesting parallels. Holy shit... You smoke some good shit dont you.... WOW All through middle school and high school I dealt with metal detectors and x-ray machines everyday, Id didnt stop a thing.. if someone wanted to get you they would find a way... Trust me I got my ass beat a couple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon35T Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Thaat's part of the point. Hear that buzzing noise? That's my statement going over most of your heads apparently ... But nevermind, I'll leave the thread alone ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Thaat's part of the point. Hear that buzzing noise? That's my statement going over most of your heads apparently ... But nevermind, I'll leave the thread alone ... So far I have gotten: Character education is lacking in all non-religious schools. Kids out of high school should know how to be soldiers, or at least easily brainwashed into conforming in basic traning. Something about a how "rights" are being sacrificed for "safety" but its really just an "agenda" and our schools are growing similar to the facist ideals of Nazi Germany. Your responses are padded and wordy, and not exactly written well. Don't brush off our misunderstaning because "we don't get it", we just have no idea what point you are trying to make. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Gideon you might want to consider that much of the institutional organization that we recognize as mass formal public education was organized in the early 20th century to support the needs of industry. "Institutionalization" as it were was all part of the program. And there's a deeper relationship to Germany than you even consider. One theory is that we modeled it after the schools of the Prussian military state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge_Brownie Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 What I find infinetely more scary is the realization that many of these things applied to schools AND society are not safety driven but agenda driven.Some interesting research is to look at how schools in Austria changed after the country voted to be annexed by Hitlers Germany. I'm NOT saying we have Nazi schools but I am saying that there's interesting parallels.For starters, your thoughts are not very well organized or articulate.But even parsing through it, I think you ultimately lost us with the quoted section at the end. What was your realization based on? Intuition? Guessing? You talk about fear taking things too far, but couldn't the same be said about your own thoughts?Some interesting research is to look at, (followed by statement citing zero research, or even a summary of any research). What parallels are there between our school and nazi schools? What agenda are you talking about, whose, or based on what? You believe the fear has gotten out of control, right? But you don't think socially things simply spiral/snowball over time? Every company has their own agenda (increase profit), and many of them have political pull. But I don't think there are 1,000 companies across unrelated fields, all having some Illuminati meeting to discuss how to fuck up my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I understand many middle and high schools had guards where you guys went. Obviously, you didn't seem affected by the metal detectors, and maybe I'm looking too much into this. At first glance... I felt putting guards in elementary schools was overkill. However... when I try to think about my years in elementary... yeah... all gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Another, more northern viewpoint. In the 15 years I've spent in the Canadian education system, only once I reached college did I start seeing guards. My elementary and high school had no guards whatsoever, students were free to enter/exit through whichever door they pleased with no searching, metal detectors or guards. Even at my college, security is quite relaxed. Aside from the Campus security guard who spends all day driving around in a Jeep TJ giving parking tickets, I don't regularly see security guards. The times I do see one, not to judge a book by it's cover, but physically, I doubt they would do a better job providing protection than another student being a good samaritan. Also, I have not seen or heard of increased security for any local high schools or universities since the numerous, and sadly still increasing number of attacks in the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 One fairly overlooked variable in all of this is the culture in American schools. Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Choo, and Adam Lanza all had some type of personality/mental disorder - and with my 17 years of experience in schools and working with children they were all likely bullied, none of them fitting into social circles, and they were likely treated very badly by their peers as they went through the American educational systems. When parents fail to recognize how much damage this has on the adolescent brain, schools are understaffed and ill-equipped to deal with it themselves. Many times it is ignored all together. Another way to make schools safer is to have a no tolerance bullying policy, and to hire and staff the right mental health professionals (in adequate numbers) to counsel their student body. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 That's one great thing about my kids school is the anti bullying programs. They have employees who are only responsible for anti bullying 0 tolerance and they have some large programs for kids to vol, raise money for pizza parties etc If you are accepted into program you are responsible for so many kids to reach out to and just say HI, how's your day It's amazing how many bullied, ignored kids have 0 interaction at school. Actually sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Moo Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 It's amazing how many bullied, ignored kids have 0 interaction at school. Actually sad I agree with that point. Back in the day you'd level things out if you were getting picked on and that was the end of it. That isn't allowed anymore..unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmsgltr Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 One fairly overlooked variable in all of this is the culture in American schools. Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Choo, and Adam Lanza all had some type of personality/mental disorder - and with my 17 years of experience in schools and working with children they were all likely bullied, none of them fitting into social circles, and they were likely treated very badly by their peers as they went through the American educational systems. When parents fail to recognize how much damage this has on the adolescent brain, schools are understaffed and ill-equipped to deal with it themselves. Many times it is ignored all together. Another way to make schools safer is to have a no tolerance bullying policy, and to hire and staff the right mental health professionals (in adequate numbers) to counsel their student body. EXACTLY girlfriend went to school for inclusive elementary ed and special ed, her mom has been a teacher for now 39 years and both of my best friends parents are teachers of 30+ years... with that being said i have listened to a lot of conversations, been put on the spot many times with personal opinions, and feel as if that gives me credibility to at least comment in this thread... my elementary school had buzzers and cameras installed when i was in 5th grade, that was in 99, and every district elementary/middle/high school had them by 00. yes, i live in one of the best districts in the country so that can easily be argued here (lack of money for some districts) but even 13 years later, with all of these issues, (especially now that the media is so fucking hyperactive about all of this) we still cant get these systems in other schools? the same goes for bullying, in 6th grade entering middle school it was the second year in that school of being considered a "no bully school" etc. - i got sent home twice for picking on kids. did i learn? yes. will all kids learn that way? no. that is why if there are ladder systems for bullying reprimand eventually one of those consequences will catch up to the bullier... my gripe: why did i have these things 13 years ago and there are still schools so set back, so poorly funded, and so stuck in their ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 my gripe: why did i have these things 13 years ago and there are still schools so set back, so poorly funded, and so stuck in their ways? Because it takes money + parents and administrators who care and are willing to do something about it. Often it's not your highest priority. And as the Newtown massacre demonstrates, even with buzzers and cameras a motivated and armed intruder can break in. You need to stop and consider that this shooting happened in a very high income town that funds its school very well. Median family income is $119k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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