Minimum Wage - What's A Fair Wage?

[Burn-E]

The more you know:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/19/who-makes-minimum-wage/

Ask yourself how many people earn minimum wage in this country. Picture in your mind who and what the average minimum wage worker is. How old are they, what gender, what ethnicity. Where do they live?

Got that picture? Now click through and see what you learn.

[Fudge_Brownie]

That data ignores the 20 states who have minimum wage above the federal. And those 20 states are some of the most populated.

And it'd be interesting to see the data for who makes really close to minimum wage. When I was in HS, I knew a lot of people with "minimum wage" jobs, but they were .05-.50 cents above minimum wage. I realize part-time HS jobs probably doesn't matter much in this discussion, but I think the same wages were given to those looking for full time work.

[ErikS]

Don't care. Don't like unskilled wages, don't be unskilled. If we were not trending socialist I would agree. But with all the concessions made to help people get ahead I have no empathy for those who do not take them.

The discussion isn't about not liking being unskilled, its about getting paid the minimum your society allows and a common standard of living. I know you are worldly and have traveled to places as have I where $7.75 an hour is a fortune. The poverty wage was never intended to support unskilled workers. No one was supposed to enjoy a first world or emerging society lifestyle on them even in America, but that's what the argument has changed to.

What would you change in the argument then? Let the free market dictate what a job is worth? Isn't that what illegal workers do anyway in first world countries?

[theForgottenone]

Except everyone get pissed of all the illegals immigrant getting free healthcare and stab people (aka Dave).

Government shouldnt subsidize the living cost BC minimum wage is not living wage. There is a reason people get higher education or enroll in trade school where certain fields allow normal people to earn wage that can support their family.

[Piston Slapper]

Government shouldnt subsidize the living cost BC minimum wage is not living wage. There is a reason people get higher education or enroll in trade school where certain fields allow normal people to earn wage that can support their family.

That's not a practical solution... you can't just say 'fuck the poor' and let everyone who works for McDonalds, Walmart, etc starve. For one thing, you'd have riots. For another thing, the only reason the government is subsidizing the living expenses of these corporation's full time employees with our tax dollars is that these corporations effectively bribed our politicians via lobbyists and campaign contributions to do so to increase their profit margins. There isn't a single major company with government subsidized labor that is incapable of paying a living wage, it's just cheaper to buy all our legislators, both parties.

[Burn-E]

Hey Howard, guess how those same companies are going to afford higher wages if forced to do so? Ever do any exploration of the impact of a wage floor? Pretty soon I would expect to see more efficiencies implemented that would rationalize more minimum wage jobs. In other words, how soon before Siri starts taking your order instead of a hamburger flipper? And if you're going to say let's raise wages then you should also be happy to accept that this will mean let's raise prices.

[Kevin.]

if people who work at mcdonald's making "minimum wage" make more than me, I will be irrationally angry

[Fudge_Brownie]

That's not a practical solution... you can't just say 'fuck the poor' and let everyone who works for McDonalds, Walmart, etc starve. For one thing, you'd have riots.

Perhaps that's what we need. People to give a shit about it. They want the government to legislate because they don't want to make the effort to organize a rally, a protest, a union, etc. With a mandated minimum wage, its too easy for the employer to justify the pay as "meeting the required minimum".

if people who work at mcdonald's making "minimum wage" make more than me, I will be irrationally angry

That's part of the problem with people's opinion on the issue. They can't objectively look at it, but instead have a very selfish POV. If McD's pays more than your expertise-requiring job, then theoretically you could leverage higher pay by threatening to flip burgers.

[JOHN_CENA]

That's part of the problem with people's opinion on the issue. They can't objectively look at it, but instead have a very selfish POV. If McD's pays more than your expertise-requiring job, then theoretically you could leverage higher pay by threatening to flip burgers.

But then due to economics, everyone starts making more money, so prices of goods and services go up as well. In perhaps 1-2 years, we are back at square one, but shouting "$15 isnt a liveable wage!" vs. shouting $7.25 isnt a living wage!" as we are now.

[theForgottenone]

That's not a practical solution... you can't just say 'fuck the poor' and let everyone who works for McDonalds, Walmart, etc starve. For one thing, you'd have riots. For another thing, the only reason the government is subsidizing the living expenses of these corporation's full time employees with our tax dollars is that these corporations effectively bribed our politicians via lobbyists and campaign contributions to do so to increase their profit margins. There isn't a single major company with government subsidized labor that is incapable of paying a living wage, it's just cheaper to buy all our legislators, both parties.

The craziness has travel down south on I-5.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/07/what_would_it_cost_to_raise_mi.html#incart_river

Last I check, USA is not a socialism country or founded upon that idea.

Those called for $15 minimum wage is just provide means for the lazy and unmotivate people to use that as a excuse to not work toward their financially support themselves or their family with real living wage.

Circumstances do not define your life. I came from a third world country migrate to u.s.a at the age of 11 years old. My dad was a h.s principal in our country and former military army service officer (captain). At the age of 50+, he still went to college and got additional degree. He work in various fields and companies including Intel, Fender, Tyco as QA technician/engineer.

He could just apply for government assistance or continue to work at jobs that pay minimum wage? He have a choice and do what it take to support his family.

Oh, none of our family members speak or know how to written a single English word but beside saying hi when we step on this country. Since then, all of my older siblings have college degrees including myself.

All of us are financially able to support our own family now. That is how it should be instead of these welfare support so call living wage.

[Piston Slapper]

Last I check, USA is not a socialism country or founded upon that idea.

Those called for $15 minimum wage is just provide means for the lazy and unmotivate people to use that as a excuse to not work toward their financially support themselves or their family with real living wage.

Um... what reality do some of you live in? There's not enough of these high skill/education requiring jobs you're "supposed to have just to support yourself" to go around. Even if there were, the whole country would collapse because there was no one doing all the menial jobs that have to be done to keep the whole system running. Acting like the working class shouldn't be able to feed their families without government assistance is exactly what's put us in this situation, continuing that mentality is insanity.

Every year, record corporate profits, higher GNP, higher productivity, but stagnant wages. They have, in a way, turned the entire country into one big company town, where your wage never rises but the cost of living just keeps going up and up. A practice which was, before our government was bought by wall street, deemed 'un-American'.

Basically every middle class family now has to have two working parents just to keep food on the table and the lights on. The working class has to rely on government subsidies because their full time job doesn't even pay for half of their household's expenses. This is simply not sustainable.

Perhaps that's what we need. People to give a shit about it. They want the government to legislate because they don't want to make the effort to organize a rally, a protest, a union, etc. With a mandated minimum wage, its too easy for the employer to justify the pay as "meeting the required minimum".

Sooner or later, that's just what's going to happen... but it's not going to be a strike at any one company, too much is tied together now, it's going to be on a national level. The USA is showing multiple statistical trends normally only seen before a civilization collapses, widening gap between the populace and the upper class, cost of living exceeding more and more people's means and the government's overall approval rating steadily approaching zero. Which is why the upper class more concerned with private security than ever and the government is militarizing the local police.

[theForgottenone]

Um... what reality do some of you live in? There's not enough of these high skill/education requiring jobs you're "supposed to have just to support yourself" to go around. Even if there were, the whole country would collapse because there was no one doing all the menial jobs that have to be done to keep the whole system running. Acting like the working class shouldn't be able to feed their families without government assistance is exactly what's put us in this situation, continuing that mentality is insanity.

Every year, record corporate profits, higher GNP, higher productivity, but stagnant wages. They have, in a way, turned the entire country into one big company town, where your wage never rises but the cost of living just keeps going up and up. A practice which was, before our government was bought by wall street, deemed 'un-American'.

Basically every middle class family now has to have two working parents just to keep food on the table and the lights on. The working class has to rely on government subsidies because their full time job doesn't even pay for half of their household's expenses.

Everyone have a choice to better themselves. What happen to all of those people complaints the illegal immigrants are taking away all the jobs from the Americans. There is Darwin theory, survival of the fittest. If you can't prepare yourself to compete for high paying job then don't blame on others or expect to be spoon feed to you.

Regard not enough high paying job/career, that is a straw man arguments.

[sconeman]

Fact is minimum wage is going up to $15 and apparently in short order. People who are already making $15 will have their wages stall because we won't be able to give them relative increases. The smart ones will move on, get educated and get better paying jobs. FYI Cost of everything is going to go through the roof. Food, gas, electricity, and commodities have already increased massively over the last few years. If you're making $15 now you might want to be looking to better your situation.. soon.

[theForgottenone]

http://www.oregonlive.com/money/index.ssf/2014/09/cost-of-living_calculator_how_does_oregon_compare_with_the_rest_of_the_county.html#incart_river

A comparison on cost of living across the united states.

Washington State doesn't warrant $15 minimum wage based on their location cost of living. California or NY would make more sense.

[Piston Slapper]