Brad850 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 29 minutes ago, Fudge_Brownie said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsk8 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) 18 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: Not bad. I used to have one with a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge. Good thing you didnt buy one of those Pro-ject Carbons. Absolute garbage. worst turntable I ever owned. I thought you were Mr digital only? seem to remember you love your HD CD What was it you didn't like about the Pro-Ject? He replaced the Ortofon Red cartridge with a Grado Platinum. That Sumiko looks awesome, but I honestly don't know enough yet to know what I'd prefer between MC and MM cartridges. Based on what I've read, I think I'd prefer the MC cartridge. The nice thing is that my Spectral preamp will do either MC or MM, it has a switch. And price is definitely relative, the Music Hall I bought is actually pretty entry level in turntables. I'm into SACD, but it's getting tough to find good SACDs, and if I can find them they're generally really expensive. I wouldn't say I was "digital only", I just wasn't vinyl because I didn't want to deal with it. Maybe I'm getting old and less reckless, but listening to an entire album is more appealing these days than tracking from Slayer to Gordon Lightfoot to the Gorillaz via my iPod on shuffle. It'll be interesting to hear this turntable next to my SACD player. From what I heard at my cousin's, there are still trade-offs or pros/cons when comparing digital to vinyl. Obviously the pro to digital is the ease of playback and availability, but the con is that with digital (standard Redbook CD), it's like all the outside edges of the music is cut off. Hopefully this is where the SACD will shine, but I still don't think it'll be as good as what I heard in vinyl. Cons with vinyl are obviously the pops and clicks (though this isn't as much a nuisance as I remembered it being, and it's really only audible between tracks), the rumble (woofers go ape-shit sometimes), and the mids seem mildly bloated, but I'm hoping this was his player. I'll report back on what I find, but it'll be a bit because I have a lot of records to buy. I'll start with getting vinyl that I also have on SACD so I can compare. Edited February 17, 2016 by mattsk8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruecatinat Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) 20 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: Not bad. I used to have one with a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge. Good thing you didnt buy one of those Pro-ject Carbons. Absolute garbage. worst turntable I ever owned. Oh come off it, it's not that bad. Mine's been perfect so far. Infinitely better than a Crosley and certainly better than a cheap, USB Sony or Audio Technica. 1 hour ago, mattsk8 said: What was it you didn't like about the Pro-Ject? He replaced the Ortofon Red cartridge with a Grado Platinum. That Sumiko looks awesome, but I honestly don't know enough yet to know what I'd prefer between MC and MM cartridges. Based on what I've read, I think I'd prefer the MC cartridge. The nice thing is that my Spectral preamp will do either MC or MM, it has a switch. And price is definitely relative, the Music Hall I bought is actually pretty entry level in turntables. Personally I'd buy a Rega before anything else - my Pro-Ject was a gift Mike immediately shat on when I posted it in the audiophile thread Edited February 17, 2016 by ruecatinat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsk8 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, ruecatinat said: Oh come off it, it's not that bad. Mine's been perfect so far. Personally I'd buy a Rega before anything else - my Pro-Ject was a gift Mike immediately shat on when I posted it in the audiophile thread That was a tough call between the Music Hall and the Rega. I considered this Rega on eBay... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rega-P3-24-Turntable-in-Classic-Black-with-Elys-2-cartridge-RP3-/141894504768?hash=item2109925140:g:~ooAAOSwzhVWshIU But decided I'd rather go with the new Music Hall. I read a lot of reviews and it was basically 50/50 between Music Hall and Rega. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruecatinat Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Just now, mattsk8 said: That was a tough call between the Music Hall and the Rega. I considered this Rega on eBay... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rega-P3-24-Turntable-in-Classic-Black-with-Elys-2-cartridge-RP3-/141894504768?hash=item2109925140:g:~ooAAOSwzhVWshIU But decided I'd rather go with the new Music Hall. I read a lot of reviews and it was basically 50/50 between Music Hall and Rega. Both are great options, I had my eye on the older Rega Planar 2 before I received the Debut. I've been looking at Music Hall's integrated amps but I'm still awhile from upgrading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 4 hours ago, mattsk8 said: What was it you didn't like about the Pro-Ject? He replaced the Ortofon Red cartridge with a Grado Platinum. Actually The Ortofon Red is a great cartidge. I love it for the money and continue to use one now. The Pro-Ject Carbon was a cheap piece of shit. And I don't mean just the price. After 3 months of warranty crap i finally sold it on ebay. (for what I paid because everyone wants one. lol) A: The tone arm is too light and hollow and it resonates. B: The tone arm bearings are too stiff C: The fishing line anti-skate weight contraption isn't isolated and you can hear the line rubbing on the hanger if it starts to move at all. D: The Motor hums like crazy. yes the 110v were awful and this is all over the internet but the 14v dc ones are bad too. I had 3 motors sent to me. they all did it. It's made worse by a shitty isolation/suspension system for the motor. Go ahead, remove the belt from the motor, turn the deck on and drop the needle on the record as if you were listening. Very pronounced hum. You can hear it most during soft passages and in between songs. Not acceptable. $79 Ion tables don't do that, so a $400 mid-fi shouldn't either. E: Isolation in general. The Deck is almost impossible to isolate from footfalls, vibration and feedback. Can't even walk through a room with out it skipping. Turn the volume up and wait for low frequency feedback to commence because of Plinth resonance. This is all pretty well documented online about what turds the Debut Carbon are. I guess if you don't know what you're hearing its fancy looking and has a high end "racecar" look to it All the Hipsters love it though, The place i bought mine sells 3 a week to the local skinny jean lumberjacks. 3 hours ago, ruecatinat said: Oh come off it, it's not that bad. Mine's been perfect so far. Infinitely better than a Crosley and certainly better than a cheap, USB Sony or Audio Technica. Personally I'd buy a Rega before anything else - my Pro-Ject was a gift Mike immediately shat on when I posted it in the audiophile thread Rarely am i as fully disappointed in a purchase. I wanted an affordable turntable since I had sold all of my decent audio stuff when i split from my wife. I wasn't expecting the Quality of a VPI or Mitchell or Linn but that was not useable. Pro-Ject does make some OK tables but never will you regret purchasing a Rega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsk8 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: ...snip... Thanks. I think A was the biggest thing I heard that made the woofers go crazy and the mids sound bloated. AC/DC, Hells Bells.... I was a little worried about his woofers, they had to be near xmax. Not sure I heard motor hum, it seemed quiet but maybe that was adding to the "mid bloat" too. "All the Hipsters love it though, The place i bought mine sells 3 a week to the local skinny jean lumberjacks." That's funny shit^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruecatinat Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 15 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: ... Use a suitcase Crosley and tell me how much you love the Debut - so salty! I understand the limitations of the table and the compromises especially within the price point but really, calling it a cheap piece of stuff multiple times is uncalled for especially when I've stated multiple times mine was a gift - sort of insulting. The Rega still has me hooked - when enough time passes with the Pro-Ject I will hunt out another Planar 2. God I love those glass platters and the slim, wooden plinth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsk8 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 minute ago, ruecatinat said: The Rega still has me hooked - when enough time passes with the Pro-Ject I will hunt out another Planar 2. God I love those glass platters and the slim, wooden plinth. Now you have me second guessing the Music Hall. I seriously debated hard between that and the Rega P3, but went the Music Hall route because I didn't want used, and the new RP3 was too spendy at about $1100 new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruecatinat Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, mattsk8 said: Now you have me second guessing the Music Hall. I seriously debated hard between that and the Rega P3, but went the Music Hall route because I didn't want used, and the new RP3 was too spendy at about $1100 new. Do you have a good dealer near you? A used table through a dealer was going to be my plan of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 20 minutes ago, ruecatinat said: Use a suitcase Crosley and tell me how much you love the Debut - so salty! I understand the limitations of the table and the compromises especially within the price point but really, calling it a cheap piece of stuff multiple times is uncalled for especially when I've stated multiple times mine was a gift - sort of insulting. The Rega still has me hooked - when enough time passes with the Pro-Ject I will hunt out another Planar 2. God I love those glass platters and the slim, wooden plinth. Suitcase Crosleys are a poor comparison. they're a $100 TT. I wouldn't even consider one, but they don't have the same issues as the Debut. No other ~$450 turntable has those issues. And none should. Your comparison is like me buying a new C30 and having all kinds of inexcusable warranty issues with it and having to return it as a lemon and then you telling me it's fine and I shouldn't dog on it because even though its a lemon its not as bad a Dacia Sandero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruecatinat Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Suitcase Crosleys are a poor comparison. they're a $100 TT. I wouldn't even consider one, but they don't have the same issues as the Debut. No other ~$450 turntable has those issues. And none should. Your comparison is like me buying a new C30 and having all kinds of inexcusable warranty issues with it and having to return it as a lemon and then you telling me it's fine and I shouldn't dog on it because even though its a lemon its not as bad a Dacia Sandero. Yeah, they shouldn't. Does mine? yeah, some of the things you listed. My comparison was in jest for the most part but look up Yangotang's thread on his C30 - it happens. I get you and you're one of the better posters on this forum but you could be more polite in this instance Edited February 17, 2016 by ruecatinat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, ruecatinat said: Yeah, they shouldn't. Does mine? yeah, some of the things you listed. My comparison was in jest for the most part but look up Yangotang's thread on his C30 - it happens. I get you and you're one of the better posters on this forum but you could be more polite in this instance Nothing personal. I had a very bad experience with this turntable and I am not going to sugar coat it. Hell, you even said you have some of the issues and you want to move up to a Rega. No reason not to. Yangs C30 was my reason behind the comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruecatinat Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Nothing personal. I had a very bad experience with this turntable and I am not going to sugar coat it. Hell, you even said you have some of the issues and you want to move up to a Rega. No reason not to. Yangs C30 was my reason behind the comparison Either way I think that Music Hall is a safe bet - I've never heard anything bad regarding those. We should revive the Home Audio Thread I think it closed on us discussing the Pro-Ject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, ruecatinat said: Either way I think that Music Hall is a safe bet - I've never heard anything bad regarding those. We should revive the Home Audio Thread I think it closed on us discussing the Pro-Ject Given the choice I would take a Rega over a Music Hall. But I liked my MMF-5 a lot its a very good table for the money. And the Blackbird cartridge was overkill.I wouldn't buy an $800 MC cartridge, I got it for the cost of planting a 15' pear tree (I am friends with an old guy who owns a high end audio store and he likes to barter) With Sheer Audio acrylic platter With Rega Glass platter Sheer Audio dual belt conversion and machined sub-platter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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