Big Will Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Hi Neubar!I haven't tackled this project in its entirety yet as this past month while I was in the U.S. Ben and I did a build on my motor (I'll do a thread detailing that soon as soon as I get a few remaining photos from Ben). The next project will be the rear suspension but having an extra set of all the rear suspension parts makes things so much easier. I chose to have a local machine shop press out all the bushings on the spare subframe and LCAs...very little cost that saved a lot of headache in my view and now the parts are ready for paint.I completely agree on the FCP poly version of #16. It looks like an awful quality bushing so I think I'll stick with the Volvo ones for that spot. I spoke with Ben Kaplan about possibly making a spherical bearing insert for that non-existent LCA bushing and he's confident he can make some. Perhaps we can get a group buy together as I'm sure there are 5 of us that would go for a set. There are also those other 2 sets of subframe bushings that appear to be available only as rubber (#s 2 and 3 in the diagram). Bushing #3 seems pretty robust but #2 is a pretty weak one in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEU Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 Ugh... If it were anyone else other than Ben Kaplan I'd be interested... I (and others) have had issues dealing with him on the internet and in person. Since he's local to me (15mins away) I see him often enough to know I'd rather work with someone else. Case in point is when he was looking for a local guinea pig for his AWD coilovers, that's a good read if you look for the thread on here. Plus I think bearings are a bit overkill. Delrin or aluminum bushing be better and lower maintenance. I don't think that bushing flexes that much to require that much movement. I see a lot of Bens work uses bearing and that's screams 1) $$$ and 2) replacing it sooner, especially since it's right next to the rear wheel that thing is gonna get hit with every you drive thru. Nice thing about delrin and aluminum is anyone can machine them, cheaply. And if you are looking to make your rear suspension stiffer with poly, getting materials that flex less will help. The problem I'm going to have with pressing out the #3a LCA inner bushing sleeve is that I'm not going to be able to do it while the it's off the car on a hydraulic press which is easy. I'm working with it still on and pressing them out is more then likely not an option. I'd have to use a "C" clamps style which might not cut it. So if I can reuse the OEM sleeve and for the poly that's a step I avoid. Cutting/torching out the old rubber is a easy as I've done that on my old 245 rear axle while it was still on the car. I even made a little heat shield and had a spray bottle of water just incase things got too hot, which they didn't... You just have to do it in a well ventilated garage... That's what I did for bushing #21, left the sleeve and reused it with the poly. Actually FCP version of #16 doesn't look too bad and there Poly is much better than IPD (IPD uses poly that's soft, all my blue bushing/mounts etc. made of it turns to gum) FCP uses a harder poly it's just the design is a bit thicker/wider then the OEM design and could use some trimming to work maybe. This could also be the case for IPD's I haven't test fit them yet. I've had bushing #2 replaced. It has large open areas that allow it to flex and tear and from what I've read the 960 guys don't like them either. That sounds like a good candidate for poly replacement, not sure why nobody make them. And I'm going to eventfully do #37 when I get everything else done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChoy Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I am so in on this thread! Thanks Will for sending me this link. I'm pulling my rear subframe apart as you read this. Already ordered bushing #'s 3a, 11a, 21 and 16 from IPD. Then I saw that Will corrected the part number on 16, so I'll just return that one and get the correct one from FCP, along with the mystery bushing on bolt #14. I plan on having some of the missing bushings in either Delrin or aluminum. I'm with NEU... don't want to spend an arm and a leg to have someone make bearing-based bushings which will wear out faster than something more solid. I think bushings #2 and #3 can be Delrin.Update: I bought bushing #16 through FCP. Was $21.95 Superpro number 6819057. You will need two kits. Tried going through Skandix, and the bushing set was 57 Euro ($71 USD), and shipping was 64 Euro... screw that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Will Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Great info you guys. I hadn't seen that FCP is now offering bushing #16 from Super Pro. The set that I bought from them came with 2 sets of bushings and was made by a company called DayStar and cost about $7 on clearance...it looks like pretty bad quality. I'll just get the Super Pro set the next time I'm in the States...shipping from Skandix here in Germany to the U.S. is absurd because they use a flat rate up to certain weights. Let me know if you have luck making some delrin bushings for spots 2 and 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEU Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 So for my upper control arms bushing, I've had them replaced already they were fairly worn especially the rear bushings were slit at the rubber gusset. My plan to upgrade them was since they are on the car was to just use 3M Window Weld caulk to fill in the voids on the bushings. I've used this for my motor mounts that I can't get in poly too. The procedure of applying is a bit time consuming depending on how you do it. I also used fresh rubber that was cleaned of casing oils and applied thin coats over several days. The rears are easy to caulk while they are on the car too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChoy Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 NEU, I've been in touch with Will via PM about this, and I've been working on some alternatives to the factory bushings. Using the information Will had posted, I gathered up all the necessary poly, and pressed out all the OE bushings.More importantly, I have the subframe and upper control arms at my machinist's shop and he plans to do some kind of Delrin bushing with steel inserts to replace bushings #2 and #3. ASFAIK, the upper control arm is just a pivot point, and doesn't experience any lateral forces, so Delrin with steel inserts to serve as mounting points for the control arm. I'm pretty sure the mystery bushing where bolt #14 goes through is this one: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-control-arm-bushing-rear-lower-9490797 I ordered two, and did some measuring. There's a slight difference in the center steel insert length... 2mm. Luckily, that difference is on the short side, where the bolt enters the bushing. The bushing itself is slightly different in length, but that shouldn't be a problem either, as it can be driven into the LCA to a point where it correctly attaches to the control arm stay. Will has suggested that this mystery bushing be replaced with either poly or something else. My concern is that this bushing DOES receive lateral forces and so whatever replaces it has to be strong enough to handle that. This MIGHT be a good place for some kind of spherical bearing, though wear might be an issue if all it sees is lateral force. I'm going to look into some kind of poly replacement, but not having any kind of catalog that shows bushing dimensions is going to make that like searching for a needle in a haystack. My other concern is that poly tends to "hog out" quicker than rubber when subjected to lateral forces. All I can say on this one is "stay tuned".If I can figure out how to post pictures to this revamped forum, I'll post up some pics I've been taking of the progress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb5 Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Nick, it seems to me that the "mystery bushing" could be machined out of delrin. I can't imagine that wear would be much of an issue as the bushing shouldn't see much force because it is used as a locating mount for the lower control arm stays, and has very limited range of travel. If delrin is unacceptable for that application, a generic poly bushing (for example from Energy Suspension's universal bushing catalog) could be used with an external steel sleeve to allow the poly bushing to sit tightly into the lower control arm opening; much like the upper engine mount bushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 More importantly, I have the subframe and upper control arms at my machinist's shop and he plans to do some kind of Delrin bushing with steel inserts to replace bushings #2 and #3. ASFAIK, the upper control arm is just a pivot point, and doesn't experience any lateral forces, so Delrin with steel inserts to serve as mounting points for the control arm.If I can figure out how to post pictures to this revamped forum, I'll post up some pics I've been taking of the progress. Looking forward to pics of the bushings being made I will not be overhauling my real suspension until the summer, when I can drive my X1/9 instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChoy Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Still working these, but getting close. My machinist was waiting on materials last week, so this week he should be machining the bushings. Will post pics when they're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockpartie Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just a heads up, the "bolt kit" has been discontinued.Rear brake shields have been discontinued for all AWD models, splash covers completely for the 1997 and 1998 AWD, one side for the '99 and '00 AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Will Posted March 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Thanks for the update. I'm assuming the screws and bolts etc. are still available individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockpartie Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Bolts aren't the issue. Not having anything to bolt down is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockpartie Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 -'00 R AWD brakes - all parts discontinued-'97, '98, '99 AWD brakes - mounts, shields, misc parts discontinued-AWD all years handbrake mountings discontinued-various rear axle seals discontinued-M58 collar gear discontinued (replaced by M66 collar gear, fitment not tested) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Will Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Luckily there are aftermarket options for most of those discontinued parts Are you sure they stopped making the collar gear? There are an awful lot of AWD cars out there that would still need that part and it's the same part automatic and manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockpartie Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Please read carefully:-M58 collar gear discontinued (replaced by M66 collar gear, fitment not tested) This information was only meant to make it easier for M58 owners to find the correct part. Volvo changed a few things around so the collar gear isn't showing up in the parts diagramm for some cars. M58 specific collars (P80 M58 & P2 M58) have been replaced by the M66 collar. Please show me an aftermarket source for splash shields for the rear brakes and rear brake caliper brackets for -99 cars. Not just a website that supposedly has them, some place that will deliver such an item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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