WHOS THE NEXT PRESIDENT

[ontheheel]

i'm glad you seem to know bush so well to have made such a specific judgement of his character.

on a related note: i have a friend who lives in midland, texas right now. if you are not aware, bush spent a good portion of his life in midland. anyway, this friend of mine, along with her family have made some mutual friends of the bushes. speaking to his character, those who know him personally say that bush is one of the most straight foward people they know.

if you are going to attack him, attack his policies where they are incongruent with your own. viral personal attacks are childish, and unsubstantive, espescially considering you do not even know the person on the level that would permit such attacks to be valid. the very fact that you make the accusations that you do makes you appear incompetent, and therefore your comments are brushed aside and paid little attention.

by the way, where were the cries of "baby killer", and "facist", when clinton ordered the strike on iraq in 1998? he operated upon the same intelligence and assumptions that bush did a year and a half ago. the past three administrations have contended that he did have weapons of mass destruction. and in fact, that was not the only basis for invasion. the primary basis for invasion was noncompliance with united nations resolutions.

by the way : Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Iraq

whoops, i guess saddam wasn't in full compliance with the cease fire...

also, i guess saddam didn't break another part of the cease fire by having scuds. and then firing them as well at the start of the invasion. hmm...

Edited August 6, 2004 by ontheheel

[sequestrum]

Only a fool would vote for Bush in 2004. Let us recall all the wonderful things the Bush administration has accomplished.

-ate the surplus Clinton created

-created a HUGE national deficit. The White House predicts that by the end of the year we will have the highest deficit in U.S. history. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati..._deficit31.html

-1.9 million jobs lost(highest in 10 years) http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayS...tory_id=1772963

-lied to us about the immediate and future threat of WMD attacks from Iraq on U.S. soil http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3135932.stm, http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/20...02-un-wmd_x.htm, http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/abou...html&highlight=

-lied to us about Iraqs ties to Usama Bin Laden http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/911.commission/, http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...n-alqaeda_x.htm

-Over 1000 U.S. troops dead based on the current administrations lies. http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/09/iraq.main/

-created even more unrest in a already very violent region of the world.

-More than likely has created a larger future generation of terrorists who hate America.

-failed to stop the 9-11 attacks.

-outsourcing American jobs http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...bushecon10.html

this could go on forever but i'll stop for now.

Edited August 6, 2004 by sequestrum

[ontheheel]

as far as the deficit, in dollar numbers, yes it is the highest deficit in history. ever heard of inflation? if you haven't, go to mcdonalds and buy a burger for a nickel : http://oregonstate.edu/Dept/pol_sci/fac/sahr/cv2003.pdf. and the deficit as a percentage of the gdp is also not even close to the highest.

also, tax revenue : http://new.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/BG1090.cfm

-on that note, i have seen data released by the treasury department concerning govt revenue growth during this administration, despite tax cuts.

and as far as the principle of running deficits. post 9/11, i would be furious if he did not run deficits. people are allready furious that the soldiers dont get enough pay and that the military is too small. well, he's got alot of ground to make up from the Clinton administration first of all. second, how is he supposed to pay to grow the military without running deficits? tax hikes would freeze the feeble recovery we have which is trying to get a foothold, and throw us back into recession.

and as far as the principle behind invading iraq, did you not read that link? sarin and mustard gas were among the banned weapons, as were the scud missiles. his noncompliance was legal justification for invasion and the break of the cease fire.

as far as the jobs being lost, do you not remember the massive layoffs directly following 9/11, my dad almost lost his job (he is a pilot). also, he took office right as the dot com bubble was bursting, which didn't help out with the overall jobs data either. i am not saying he is perfect, but the unemployment numbers are a bit inflated primarily due to those two circumstances and the recession which was helped along by those two things as well.

concerning not preventing 9/11, yes there was failure there. the failure, however was not solely his. this country did not take the terroist threat seriously, period. i'd say he is doing a decent job at preventing further attacks right now using the lessons from 9/11. the entire country is more aware and more sensitive as well. it was terrible that it took an event like 9/11 to open up the eyes of everyone.

[freeskier8585]

Stop and think about this, we gave old man Saddamn 90 days warning before we invaded, give me a country full of sand, lots of bouldozers and tractors and ill show you WMD's dissapear in 30 days easy, or across the border even faster, how is that such a tough concept to grasp, there were wmd's in Iraq and chance are they are still there, buried in the shitz load of sand they have.

Also saying that outsourcing is a bad thing is the most hypocritical and stupid thing ever, ever. Stop and think about that one too.

1: if out sourcing stopped itd only be fair that other countries dont do it too, so i guess the 5 million emplyees of Mercedes Benz, Nissan, Toyota and a few other would have to be fired, and the plants moved back to their home countries, which would also drive the cost of their product up and make it harder for the working man to aquire them.

2: If we stopped outsourcing the cost of products would surge astronomically, no longer could poor families have computers or the tech services that went with them, nope theyed be way to expensive, but that doesnt mattter because yoru saving jobs that similar to the wagon industry at the turn of the centrury, why perserve jobs that are going away any way? You cannot pay so bum living in a trailer park $10 an hour to answer tech questions when in india that same job canbe done for 10 a day. Outsourcing is the reason the tech industry can make such inexpensive products that all americans can buy. If yoru mad about that becuase you lost your job, tough life sucks huh? maybe you should have gone to collge (not being able to afford it is I'm dumb, GI bill mofo) or gone to a tech school (almost free).

Summary

1: Wmd's can be buried just like all the Kurds he killed

2: outsourcing is good, it builds our econ too

3: if you dont like outsourcing your probably a hillbilly who need to get educated and get a new job.

[Guest Guest]

If yoru mad about that becuase you lost your job, tough life sucks huh? maybe you should have gone to collge (not being able to afford it is I'm dumb, GI bill mofo) or gone to a tech school (almost free).

omigod!!! dumbest post evaR!!! Do you really think anyone is going to take your dribble seriously? Go back to 5th grade you hillbilly schmuck! BTW Iran gassed the kurds.

[gdizzle]

omigod!!! dumbest post evaR!!! Do you really think anyone is going to take your dribble seriously? Go back to 5th grade you hillbilly schmuck! BTW Iran gassed the kurds.

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Why don't you grow a pair and register! Iran gassed the Kurds? :blink:

[freeskier8585]

sorry i didnt spell check my post, most people dont anyways, my fingures are bleeding from working on my car, o yea i have to fix it before i go back to VMI...

[freeskier8585]

wait acutally i have no reason why i couldnt spell check, but guess what, it doesnt change the fact that im right

[Guest Guest]

Actually you're wrong. Your post is full of the rightwing myths that the typical brainwashed neo-con sheep spouts out on command. If outsourcing is good for the economy, then why is the economy so bad? Do you want to explain how taking jobs away from Americans(creating higher crime rates) and giving them to workers in foreign slave shops is good? Slave shop workers get treated as well as the average Iraqi prisoner under Saddam(right wing idea is that it's ok to treat slave shop works like stuff but not ok if Saddam is doing it??). If Saddam had all these functional WMDs laying around then why didn't he use them against our troops? Or leave them out for citizens to use??? hmm.. guess what! He didn't have any to use. Sarin and Mustard Gas are not WMDs. They were used in WW1 will little effectiveness. Even Hitler was exposed to mustard gas in WW1 and recovered fully and well enough to start WW2. I can see why the previous posters stopped argueing with you guys. You are so uninformed and brainwashed it isn't even funny. I'm leaving this discussion too...i'll leave you guys to your 100% fictional rightwing fantasies and bogus facts.

[swdracr]

Okay, debate is fine, but I could swear it's been the same exact things for 11 pages now. Nothing like a good round of political "discussion" to bring out the worst in people.

If Saddam had all these functional WMDs laying around then why didn't he use them against our troops?  Or leave them out for citizens to use??? hmm.. guess what!  He didn't have any to use.

Already been over this. You believe he would have used them if he had them. If your country is getting smaller and smaller on you, acts of desparation would make sense, it's a decent point. The other side believes that he can't use weapons he's burried or shipped off. (And he did use scuds during the invasion, which may not be considered WMD, but are still things he shouldn't have had). But (for the sake of argument) let's assume he's thinking logically, and not desparately.. he knows he's not going to beat us (even if he had WMD), so would you either a) lose and show the world that we were right or b) lose, but let the world believe we were wrong and mobilize this huge feeling of anti-American sentiment that already exists in the Middle East? There are probably just as many foreign fighters shooting at our guys in Iraq as there are Iraqis.

Sarin and Mustard Gas are not WMDs.  They were used in WW1 will little effectiveness.  Even Hitler was exposed to mustard gas in WW1 and recovered fully and well enough to start WW2.

Again, the argument is not that they are WMDs, it's that he supposedly had destroyed them. Nevermind that we sold that stuff to him when he was our anti-Iranian buddy back in the 80s.. (Oops, I guess that makes us flip-floppers. Yea for politics.)

I can see why the previous posters stopped argueing with you guys.  You are so uninformed and brainwashed it isn't even funny.  I'm leaving this discussion too...i'll leave you guys to your 100% fictional rightwing fantasies and bogus facts.

How does the stuff I keep seeing like this contribute to a reasonable debate? It is possible for people to disagree and still respect each other's opinions. And I don't mean to pick on only you, I'm just playing devils advocate. I could argue either side on certain points, I'm just too lazy/burned out to really care any more. (Did I mention I hate politics?) I'm just tired of seeing the same things brought up and then seeing the same half answer/half insult.

Edited August 7, 2004 by swdracr

[gdizzle]

Actually you're wrong.  Your post is full of the rightwing myths that the typical brainwashed neo-con sheep spouts out on command.  If outsourcing is good for the economy, then why is the economy so bad?  Do you want to explain how taking jobs away from Americans(creating higher crime rates) and giving them to workers in foreign slave shops is good?  Slave shop workers get treated as well as the average Iraqi prisoner under Saddam(right wing idea is that it's ok to treat slave shop works like stuff but not ok if Saddam is doing it??).  If Saddam had all these functional WMDs laying around then why didn't he use them against our troops?  Or leave them out for citizens to use??? hmm.. guess what!  He didn't have any to use.  Sarin and Mustard Gas are not WMDs.  They were used in WW1 will little effectiveness.  Even Hitler was exposed to mustard gas in WW1 and recovered fully and well enough to start WW2.  I can see why the previous posters stopped argueing with you guys.  You are so uninformed and brainwashed it isn't even funny.  I'm leaving this discussion too...i'll leave you guys to your 100% fictional rightwing fantasies and bogus facts.

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How is the economy soo bad?

[freeskier8585]

yea last time i checked the unemployment rate was in the 5% range, almost as good as anytime under clinton, you forget the econ was on its way out when clinton was in office.

have you ever been to India? I dont think you have, ive been seen the "sweatshops" they actually arnt bad most of the workers can be seen outside on lunch break talking on cellphones... yea you only see what the news tells you, and guess what they dont know everything. If an american looses his job, he should do somthing to fix that seeing as how hes job isnt needed anymore, he must adapt to a new world of technology. You left wingers just think because hes american hes earned the right to a hand out the first time the shitza hits the fan, yea thats socialist if you ask me.... move to canada if you dont like it, they love the freeloaders up there

[InlineTurbo]

C'mon Gdogg. You are being unreasonable for Bush haters to be reasonable.

The economy is at 5.5% unemployment, but the economy sucks. And if it is at 5.5% then all the jobs are at McDonalds. Don't you get it? Its not about reality it is about how much hate they can dredge up.

http://www.dol.gov/

The numbers paint a pretty good picture of the economy. I suppose we shouldn't have run a deficit in WW2 either? The whole Pearl Harbor thing and that unethical war against the Japanese and Germans. That is what the current crop of Democrats would be saying in an election year if the Republicans were running on a Pro War ticket. Never mind that 9/11 was a worse attack than Pearl Harbor and our economy is back on track only a few years later.

Here is a good article that explains the hate pretty well.

http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200407200900.asp

Oh, and the Marines didn't like Clinton very much. Some of them were fired for speaking out against his abuses of the millitary. He disgraced them, took away their budget, Sexually harased one of the Air Force women gurding him on Airforce One. Never mind that Clinton "misplaced" the nuclear codes. His budget surplus came from gutting our Millitary and Intelligence. The result? 9/11 and they Blame Bush for it. Gotta love that. Never mind that Gorelic information wall that didn't allow intelligence agencies to share info.

[turbor850]

anyone see this site ? - http://www.democraticunderground.com/

[freeskier8585]

haha i just read the whole thing, someone talked about kerry falling off a ski lift, i actually saw that, it wasnt his fualt actually, well it is, hes a retard the quads at SV are so slow its incredible... any ways, treresa or whatevs is best frines with my best friends mom, and shes still not voting kerry, when shes intown these two are inseperable, but yea im in the Mil, and whoever funds it the best, wins, for me anyways, i gotta look out for my own jerk