Playboy Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Why do you want the gov't to lie? B/c you feel the truth will shatter the country and the economy if we ever knew half the s*it that goes on?I personally would rather know then to be brainwashed and screwed with. But then again, this will never change.You do bring up some valid points though Charles.-Ryan/em shakes his head. I want my government to lie to me. It?s that simple. As for the media...... I just want them to go away← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhoeve Posted September 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 After seeing "The Fog of War", I realized just how clueless our government really is. Charles I recommend you see it. Extremely interesting and historically pertinent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 My favorite off the wall scenario is aliens. If aliens came down and made contact with our government, do you think they would tell us right away? The super religious right would stain their pants, and the super left would loot and turn the whole earth into a giant Woodstock </shivers>. Its just old fashion information control for the good of the people. If they did know of aliens though do you think they would tell us right away? Maybe some expatriated citizen is trying to publish the information right now. Every government in the world is an extremely well tuned propaganda machine. A tool that hones bulk of people’s minds with draconian efficiency. Don't believe me? Go see what you can find out about Carnivore, South Box Project or Packeteer. Systems running massive arrays of processors capable of breaking common forms of PgP/blowfish encryption on the fly. Good book, just twenty years to soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 After seeing "The Fog of War", I realized just how clueless our government really is. Charles I recommend you see it. Extremely interesting and historically pertinent.←I rest my case. See above post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Some people forget the American public was lied to and deceived. The quotes could go on for hours.← NO stuff! Really? I thought the gov't was ALWAYS forthcoming with ALL information!Sadam is out of power, so who cares? WMD's, terrorist regimes, the rest doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhoeve Posted September 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Why is it that just because you accept that they are a propaganda machine that it is ok for them to lie to us and then still do the wrong thing. Are you saying you agree with their policies blindly? Scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhoeve Posted September 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 NO stuff! Really? I thought the gov't was ALWAYS forthcoming with ALL information!Sadam is out of power, so who cares? WMD's, terrorist regimes, the rest doesn't matter.←Leave this thread, you have nothing to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhoeve Posted September 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 (edited) If you really want to get a good idea what kind of entity our government is, read "A People's History of the United States"- Zinn.Then you will begin to understand what our gov't is about. Edited September 15, 2004 by kenhoeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 If you really want to get a good idea what kind of entity our government is, read "A People's History of the United States"- Zinn.Then you will begin to understand what our nation is about.←ty michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 it is ok for them to lie to us and then still do the wrong thing. ←Who’s done what wrong? I am going to break this down a little more. Anyone reading this far is in the top echelon of society. You do not think like the masses. The masses are not spending their nights combing through webpages on politics, or quoting academy award winning pieces. You all drive european cars, and are more well versed in many aspects of the world. Now no matter how much I disagree with your mindset, you are the top 10%, except me.... top .001%. The government has to cater to the other 95% of the bell curve. If you cannot accept you are all more open minded than the average person then I cannot help you. A good way to put it is, do you tell your 4-year-old child about rape, drugs, death, killing, hippies, or whatever super evils are in the world? No, you do what you can to help them grow and keep them safe. Agree with it or not, that’s the way it works. In a perfect world it might be different but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhoeve Posted September 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 I agree with your general principle. You really know how to butter up your antagonist.top .001%, smug SOB... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 (edited) After seeing "The Fog of War", I realized just how clueless our government really is. Charles I recommend you see it. Extremely interesting and historically pertinent.←"The Fog of War" doesn't quite strike me as hippy enough for you to be referencing it. That was a great documentary, and I think that it just goes to say nothing about our current situation.Lets go over the simple facts of this war:Many president's were big pussies and wouldn't go after Sadam for this and that excuse. George W. is from Texas and someone from the middle-east named Osama pissed him off. At last, we have Saddam out of power and here are allll the hippies complaining about this and that. I'll finish this later.Edit - I don't have to. Charles just laid out the whole "lying" thing for you (you already knew it, you just didn't want to think about it because it doesn't help your argument any - we all do that), we all know that Bush didn't know he was lying (), and as I said, George got the job done. What do you propose we do now? We put Iraq in one hell of a situation getting rid of Saddam, which I think was a necessity and long overdue. Now that Iraq is in shambles what do we do? Answer me this.My second question - what did Bush do wrong? What did we do wrong? Edited September 15, 2004 by Legend854T5R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltablade Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 (edited) [Why is it that just because you accept that they are a propaganda machine that it is ok for them to lie to us and then still do the wrong thing. Are you saying you agree with their policies blindly? Scary.←I would also like to know what is "the wrong thing to do"? Answer me this, is it "wrong" for people to pour acid on women who don't keep themselves completely covered? Is it "wrong" for the leader of a country to use biological weapons on people living in his country?Volvospeed Admin has hit the proverbial nail on the head. Most people are too simple-minded to understand the reason for war. There are many things we don't and simply can't know about.Also, concerning the UN resolutions: Let's see, no one would deny that Saddam Hussien had wmds before and during the Gulf War. In fact, during and before the gulf war, Saddam had created at least 3.9 TONS of VX gas, over 8500 liters of anthrax, 550 shells containing mustard gas, 107,500 casings for chemical weapons, at least 157 aerial bombs containing bacteria/virus, 25 warheads containing things such as botulinim, aflatoxin, etc., and 500 bombs fitted with parachutes which can be used to deliver nerve gas. If Saddam claimed to have destroyed all of these, would you believe him? But when he violated UN Resolution 1441 by kicking the U.N. inspectors out, naturally, you'd think that he just destroyed the weapons without telling anybody, correct? Obviously these weapons are still around somewhere. Actually, the fact that we didn't find anything is the most frightening thing about the war to me. If Saddam no longer possess the weapons we knew he once had, where are they??? Answer that. Let's asess what could have happened to them: 1)He destroyed them (see above), not likely. 2)They are still somewhere in Iraq, perhaps. 3)He sold them or gave them to terrorists, or maybe a country like Syria, a known harbor for terrorists around the world. That scares me. But maybe it doesn't scare most people. They probably think that Saddam is actually a pretty cool guy once you get to know him and that the war was a big mistake. I'm sorry Mr. Hussien, you didn't have any "weapons of mass destruction" that we could find so you can have your country back. Continue spending your time and money building yourself lavish palaces and neglecting the welfare of your people. Keep killing an average of 32,000 innocent people each year. The U.S. is terribly sorry. Edited September 15, 2004 by Deltablade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 There is a fourth option for conspiracy theory lovers - we took them and aren't telling anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
850 Arrr! Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 information control for the good of the people that!If no one knows how monkeyed up the world is, it won't change. Furthermore, when one does realize just how monkeyed up the world and we as humans are, he chooses to accept it or not. It's easy to say "well that's the way it is." as opposed to, "what are we gonna do about it?!" (Especially when you're the upper crust )But I guess I can't blame you. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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