mmetz Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 That's the crappy thing about this arguement, is that you've got people who feel very strongly either way about both sidesOn a more positive note, it's nice to know we're free to have [and share] these views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 (edited) On a more positive note, it's nice to know we're free to have [and share] these views.←This is true.. and thankfully, we both agree on that! (And that Matt's a retard) Edited October 8, 2004 by jross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdizzle Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 (edited) Hey, go easy on Matt... I mean, since when do you look for coherent arguements from the village nice guy?(Also, you're starting to sound like you're making alot of personal attacks in general. You might want to tone it down a little.)←Village nice guy?!?!?! How about village loser! Edited October 8, 2004 by gdogg16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 nice guy == idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdizzle Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 nice guy == idiot←yeah i gathered that when I tried to say id!ot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 And so begins the longest post in VS history.WOW! That's the biggest bunch of crap evAR! So what you are saying is murder should be leagal, I mean, were just going to do it anyway!No, murder has a very negative affect on society, the murderer's are doing actual harm to the welfare of society and the individual in EVERY instance (except maybe true mercy killings, but there are exceptions to every rule). The vast majority of the time an abortion does not really harm the welfare of society, as a matter of fact it sometimes could be seen as a benefit to the unborn child and the mother.Making murder illegal also helps to decrease the fear an individual has of being physically harmed. You don't need to make murder illegal to get justice - think linch mobs. If murder were legal the linch mobbing would be a legal activity as well. Making murder illegal simply helps to secure a right we wish was there - the right to live without fear. Any scientist would probably tell you that a fetus has no sense of fear in the womb anyway, but what is definite is that the fetus is not affected by the laws governing our fine country, so the fetus is not really going to feel any safer once abortions are made illegal anyway. I could have made this much nicer and clearer, I'm sure, but who has time?I didn't say I approved of aborition, I SIMPLY said that the goverment has no right to single handedly decide what is right or wrong for millions of women and thier potential children. I would much rather see an abortion than a child raised in an unfit home, malnourished, beaten ect.I agree with this statement, and these are GOOD examples of when an abortion will benefit the unborn child in the long run in some people's eyes.Partial birth abortions are even worse!Yes, the are absolutely horrible. Fortunately, though, we don't have to ban abortion entirely to stop these attrocities.That is where we differ. I believe it is a life as soon as cells begin to split. No other way to look at it... wether you view it as "human" or not is besides the point ... it is an individual's life. As far as the child not being wanted... Have you ever heard of adoption? This is where my point of selfishness comes in > if a woman is going to paticipate in sexual acts that get her pregnant but she doesn't want a child... 1. she should've thought about and took preventitive action before getting pregenent. 2. if those measures do not work - many couples who can't have children would love hers. Why should the baby be executed because her mother doesn't want to deal with it... that is pathetic.No, which view you share IS part of the point, and your first statement seems like a HUGE self contradiction to me. You basically said the point isn't the point. Well it is the point.As far as adoption goes, talk to me when you are a pregnant girl who doesn't want her baby and YOU are willing to go through what may end up being a difficult pregnancy which will have a big impact on your life and THEN you are willing to give up your own baby after you've gone through all of that.You are either Pro Choice or Pro Life.There is a middle ground, those of us who dissaprove of abortion but do not impose our views on others, especially in situations we cannot and will not ever understand.To me Pro-Life legislation and censorship are pretty close together, and BOTH are attrocities. NO ONE is making you look at/listen to/play anything. In the same manor NO ONE is making ANYONE have an abortion, it's a decision people should be able to make for themselves!Now that I think about it, I guess abortion IS a clear liberal vs. conservative issue, even though it shouldn't be. Government Control over our private lives? NO THANKS. You can kill all the babies you want and I'm gonna keep watching south park, listening to 2 Live Crew! and playing GTA3.Our private lives should NOT!!!!! be the concern of our government. Good job, you made me hate liberals even more.No one is asking me? No reason for me to impose my morals?Nope.Well why don't we all just go ahead and do whatever the eff we want?Okay, as long as you aren't doing harm to society that's fine with me.Why vote? Why have a say? Why stand up for anything? Let's just tolerate everything.You throw away your vote voting for someone who has a chance for winning anyway, so I don't know why you bother anyway. You have no say in this election, your vote for another party has a much greater effect than your vote for either the republican or democratic party. I see a lot of "I don't like this in the middle stuff/politicians fighting for the middle ground", so why don't you get off your jerk and vote for a party that stands for what you believe in. If enough people thought about where they stand and voted for the party that stands for their beliefs there might actually be a chance for those parties to get on the ballot and maybe even one day win.But don't pretend your vote matters for this election - it doesn't. No matter who YOU vote for the same guys going to win the electoral vote. Your vote is going to have a much larger impact on the next election, you should probably start thinking about that and really voting for who you want to win, and not just whoever you agree most with that actually has a chance. Otherwise you ARE tolerating a whole lot of stuff.Newsflash... abortion is a conservated / liberal issue. Accross the board, liberals are mostly pro-choice... conservatives are mostly pro-life. This is what I have observed. If you haven't... I'm sorry, but before you begin a post like this do some research. Yeah, that's completely true, but it has everything to do with more/less government control, and a lot less to do with morals. You can be pro-life and still be conservative, that just means you aren't a liberal asshole who tries to impose his views on others. Worry about yourself. MYOB - ever seen those letters before?So we'll just have to agree to disagree.Yes, we willI apologize for being too personal ... got I little fired up. I'll edit as necessary.Whatever, I don't really care. No worries, no personal offense to you either.On a more positive note, it's nice to know we're free to have [and share] these views.Yes it is.This is true.. and thankfully, we both agree on that! (And that Matt's a retard)Blow me.And the splitting begins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Blow me.←I'll pass on that offer, thanks.Also, while I understand you may feel this merits it's own discussion, could you at least consult those of us actively participating in the discourse before splitting out parts of the conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 I'll pass on that offer, thanks.Also, while I understand you may feel this merits it's own discussion, could you at least consult those of us actively participating in the discourse before splitting out parts of the conversation?←This is a *completely* different topic from "are you liberal or conservative", so I don't think any consulting is necessary, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 This is a *completely* different topic from "are you liberal or conservative", so I don't think any consulting is necessary, sorry.←No it isn't you dolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdizzle Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 No it isn't you dolt.←Oopppss, that was me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 See, alot of us (who were having the discussion, and make up the majority of it) feel it was part of the previous issue (conservative/ liberal). You don't agree, but you appear to be alone on that. Again, please at least consult us before splitting our threads, we prefer to leave these things in context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendall Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 LOL Peterson and OJ know whats up. Its never too late to fix a mistake.........I am pro-choice. Hate to say it but the hipppies have it right this time. BTW this is Charles not Kendall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0E Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 As conservative as I am on almost all my views on different issues, abortion is not one of them. Responsibility among us is of utmost importance. "Wrong" is an understatement for an inane slut to run around and take a ride on every guy in town, getting knocked up in the process and needing an abortion every single time (trust me...I've heard of girls having more than 8 within a year). A population with a strong ethical code is much more important than a "woman's right to choose," as morals are simply the of the problem. But accidents/mistakes can and do happen. If the injection my girlfriend receives once in every three months just so happens to fail for whatever reason, darn straight she is getting an abortion. No matter how small the percentage is, faithful, responsible couples still get abortions every now and then. Bringing a child into the world when the mother and father were are not expecting or want to have at that particular time is just as bad as aborting it if you practice a responsible, conscientious lifestyle. While I strongly stand behind the President with his ban on the nauseating and absolutely disgusting practice of partial-birth abortion, the privilege of an abortion in its more traditional form will never be taken away. Regardless of what all the brainless liberals say, Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, even in President Bush’s second term in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckV986 Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 As conservative as I am on almost all my views on different issues, abortion is not one of them. ←I think pro-choice is the true "conservative" view. Conservativeism promotes the least amount of government intervention in one's personal life possible. 'nuff said there I think as it relates to the issue of abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 I think pro-choice is the true "conservative" view. Conservativeism promotes the least amount of government intervention in one's personal life possible. 'nuff said there I think as it relates to the issue of abortion.←I agree, as I found this above after thinking into it and relating it to censorship, as far as it is from that topic. The Republican party is obviously not completely conservative OR the far right. We need a proper conservative party that isn't too far right, something between republican and constitutional. Homosexuality is another issue that conservatives SHOULD be fine with. As such, I think maybe people can see more deeply into why this ISN'T a conservative vs. liberal issue and why I split it.That said, if you have anything to say about the thread splitting please PM me and don't waste forum space and ruin the topic any further, I like it just the way it is. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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