Deltablade Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 hmm...i put pro-choice... but i won't accept abortion past the 2nd-trimester either. birthdays are given when u exit the womb...isn't that what it's supposed to stand for? 128 day premie is still 3 months into a pregnancy... that finishes the first trimester. abortion should be legal before that and then in comes the grey area for the 2nd trimester. it should also be legal if it endangers a mother's life AND cannot be removed safely and become a premature baby.. a fetus technically, if u want to call it, a parasite. there is no way the fetus can survive without technology, nor can it survive outside a womb during the 1st trimester (until technology tells us otherwise). oh well...i'm being a little harsh.Your statements make me quite ill. You consider a fetus a parasite? The only thing I can guarantee about you is that you were once a fetus. You didn't come from a fetus, you were a fetus. Think about this, would you ever have prefered that your parents discarded their parasite? But wait, only in the first trimester of development, right? That would have been ok. I don't understand how killing an innocent life is ever justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Who gives a stuff? What never existed doesn't really affect us, does it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve s Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 (edited) it was just a term used. it requires the host's blood and nutrients to survive and develop, in this case, the mother.. not saying it is a parasite, but it does require a host to which there is no real return until birth... after birth is a different story and yeah, u get the feeling of ur child growing in u...but still.. there is a host and there is a recipient..anyway, it should be a woman's decision..and i don't see how a child born out of spite or raised as a burden is better.. Edited October 13, 2004 by steve s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontheheel Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 and i don't see how a child born out of spite or raised as a burden is better..←better than dead? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve s Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 i think that's where the main point of contention is... at what point do we say it is a life? killing a person is wrong. but at what point do we consider the child in a mother's womb a single living entity that deserves a chance at life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_gdogg16_* Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 I'm just going to add a little fuel to the fire, but first, bravo Mike! Matt, you are a pokingidiot! You should be elimenated from the gene pool or better yet, you should have your vagina sewn shut and your ovaries removed to prevent any chance of reproduction. Ok, so why is ok for a women to kill her unborn child but if I were to murder a pregenant woman I would be charged with a double homicide, one for the mother and one for the unborn child. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_gdogg16_* Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Who gives a stuff? What never existed doesn't really affect us, does it now?←So an unborn fetus is nonexistant?!?! :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAVolvo Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 (edited) Pro-life. The freedom to choose gives us a moral responsiblity. Having a abortion to escape having a child is abusing your moral agentcy and backing away from any responsibilty facing having a child.If the mother was raped, then I feel that it is better to put the child up for adoption. There are many loving families willing to adopt.I also feel that abortion is only right if the unborn child endangers the life of the mother after everything has been done to preserve it.Liberals want more gun laws but do nothing on the practice of regular abortions, murdering people at the source. Vote pro-life!Peace! Edited October 13, 2004 by VAVolvo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 So an unborn fetus is nonexistant?!?! ←To me an unborn fetus is not a life, it's a potential life, and not everything that has potential suceeds.The freedom to choose gives up a moral responsiblity.How is having a child a moral responsibility? It is a decision, and if you don't want it you shouldn't have to have it and that's that. That doesn't mean you should be able to decide after it's too late as partial birth or after the first trimester, but I'm sorry - people should be able to decide if they want a child or not.And adoption this, adoption that - most women would not give up their baby after going through birth. You talk about it like its something easy, like buying a car. "Oh don't destroy the car just because you don't want it, give it away to someone else who will love it and treat it well!" No, sorry, it takes 9 months, sometimes more, out of a woman's life and they are NOT easy months and birth itself is NOT easy. You go ahead and put 9 months of hard work, harder work than anything you'll ever work on, and then you go and give it up.Please, this is not a black and white issue like some of you foolishly pretend it is. It isn't ignorant to be pro-choice or pro-life, and I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel the way you do, but you DON'T have a right to impose your views on others. This is NOT a societal issue in everyone's eyes. The governments job is to protect its citizens - well guess what, you aren't actually a citizen of this government until you're born.Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 i know this sounds pretty cold, but consumers drive the economy. more consumers, more consuming. also, you create a larger future labor market, thereby expanding the most limited resource, and driving the economy foward. people have babies, they need to buy things for their babies, increasing planned total expenditure, companies need to produce more, companies hire more people, more people hired means more wage earners, more wage earners means higher planned total expenditure. speaking of macro, i need to go study... ←Haha, yeah, from a macroeconomic perspective I guess they would benefit spending, but sheer population growth is not a big economic helper. From a microeconomic standpoint though babies just cost money and don't do anyone any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltablade Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 you DON'T have a right to impose your views on others. ←No one is forcing anybody else to believe their veiws. This is the internet. You can say whatever your tiny brain can think up. The first amendment to our nation's constitution guarantees our right to free speech, so long as we abide by other laws and regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdizzle Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 To me an unborn fetus is not a life, it's a potential life, and not everything that has potential suceeds.How is having a child a moral responsibility? It is a decision, and if you don't want it you shouldn't have to have it and that's that. That doesn't mean you should be able to decide after it's too late as partial birth or after the first trimester, but I'm sorry - people should be able to decide if they want a child or not.And adoption this, adoption that - most women would not give up their baby after going through birth. You talk about it like its something easy, like buying a car. "Oh don't destroy the car just because you don't want it, give it away to someone else who will love it and treat it well!" No, sorry, it takes 9 months, sometimes more, out of a woman's life and they are NOT easy months and birth itself is NOT easy. You go ahead and put 9 months of hard work, harder work than anything you'll ever work on, and then you go and give it up.Please, this is not a black and white issue like some of you foolishly pretend it is. It isn't ignorant to be pro-choice or pro-life, and I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel the way you do, but you DON'T have a right to impose your views on others. This is NOT a societal issue in everyone's eyes. The governments job is to protect its citizens - well guess what, you aren't actually a citizen of this government until you're born.Sorry!←WOW!!! You get dumber the more you type and by looking at your post count, you type a lot! Who in the hell, besides you, pulled the race card anyhow? This has nothing to do race so why bring it up! The fact is that life begins at conception, care to prove me wrong? You never did answer my ? about why it is ok for women to abort unborn babies but when a women carrying a unborn baby is killed the killer can be convicted of a double homicide! Tell me that is odd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAVolvo Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 I had a major typo in my last post here, I hope this clarifies my position:Pro-life. The freedom to choose gives US a moral responsiblity. Having a abortion to escape having a child is abusing your moral agentcy and backing away from any responsibilty facing having a child.If the mother was raped, then I feel that it is better to put the child up for adoption. There are many loving families willing to adopt.I also feel that abortion is only right if the unborn child endangers the life of the mother after everything has been done to preserve it.Liberals want more gun laws but do nothing on the practice of regular abortions, murdering people at the source. Vote pro-life!Peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmetz Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 most women would not give up their baby after going through birthso then would it be so wrong for women to carry their babies to full term and deliver them into a world where they would be wanted? do you have children Matt [hope not]? have you every experienced the birth of a child first hand? have you been with a woman for the entire 9 months plus while she was pregnant? I don't think you have... and here is why... because you wouldn't be running off at the keyboard about how "no one cares about a lifeless glob of sperm and egg - i can kill it if i want to"... you would have more appreciation for life if you've really experienced what you're blabbing about.and the argument about "it's not a life yet" is discredited by the very word "abortion". if it is not a life, then what are you aborting? cells dividing and multiplying into a child are not "potential" you effing nice guy... they exist. and at no point can you say "it is not a life" and be correct."wah wah wah. I'm being imposed upon!" oh so sorry to hurt your feeble little misguided ego. if you want to keep saying taking a stand to save lives is "imposing" well then I'll gladdly impose on your hippie, fluffy dog lov'n, jive turkey jerk all day long. first ammendment kid. word to yo motha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt1122 Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading here. No one is forcing anybody else to believe their veiws. This is the internet. You can say whatever your tiny brain can think up. The first amendment to our nation's constitution guarantees our right to free speech, so long as we abide by other laws and regulations.I'm not talking about freedom of speech, I'm talking about the government banning abortion!Who in the hell, besides you, pulled the race card anyhow? This has nothing to do race so why bring it up!And... you're an nice guy. Saying it's a black and white issue means it has a clear write or wrong answer (regardless of your arrogance leading you to believe you are always right and that there is one). It means there are shades of gray as well. Do you live under a rock? How can you not know what that expression means?The fact is that life begins at conception, care to prove me wrong? You never did answer my ? about why it is ok for women to abort unborn babies but when a women carrying a unborn baby is killed the killer can be convicted of a double homicide! Tell me that is odd!This is not a fact, it is an opinion, go read up on your abortion issues and you'll find I am NOT the only person who thinks so. And to answer your question the reason no one argues with charging the murderer with a double homicide is because no one cares if a murderer goes to jail for one or two sentences. Actually, most people want him to go to jail for the second sentence, so no one would ever bother to argue against that except defense attorneys, and they lose because everyone wants to put their client away for as long as possible if he did indeed kill the woman. On the other hand I *do* agree with the double homicide charge because no one except the mother should be able to make the decision to abort a baby or not. If anyone else kills the fetus they should be charged for destroying potential life that was NOT going to be aborted. If the decision to abort is made the child is NOT to be, if the decision NOT to abort is made then the child is to be and THIS is when it should be charged as a double homicide.I know you probbbably disagree, but thats my view on it.so then would it be so wrong for women to carry their babies to full term and deliver them into a world where they would be wanted? do you have children Matt [hope not]? have you every experienced the birth of a child first hand? have you been with a woman for the entire 9 months plus while she was pregnant? I don't think you have... and here is why... because you wouldn't be running off at the keyboard about how "no one cares about a lifeless glob of sperm and egg - i can kill it if i want to"... you would have more appreciation for life if you've really experienced what you're blabbing about.and the argument about "it's not a life yet" is discredited by the very word "abortion". if it is not a life, then what are you aborting? cells dividing and multiplying into a child are not "potential" you effing nice guy... they exist. and at no point can you say "it is not a life" and be correct."wah wah wah. I'm being imposed upon!" oh so sorry to hurt your feeble little misguided ego. if you want to keep saying taking a stand to save lives is "imposing" well then I'll gladdly impose on your hippie, fluffy dog lov'n, jive turkey jerk all day long. first ammendment kid. word to yo motha.Hippie again, huh? You're an nice guy, I'd NEVER abort a child if it was up to me, but I would NEVER take the right away from a woman to make that decision for herself, either. Get my drift? I'm a poking conservative - a TRUE poking conservative - I do NOT believe in government control over private life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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