The Real Obama

[DonutsDemise]

lol. i'm 17 now and i do pay some taxes. i just do not wnat someone in charge of our country who's entire life is wrapped up in the military.

how much do you make? you're probably not doing your deductions right

Its the federal government. It should be wrapped up in the military. Their only real job is to keep out China, or whatever other stereotype you want to put here, out. No matter who is elected not that much is going to change. It takes longer than 4 or even eight years to get big wheels turning. But while on that subject blame Clinton for the military down sizing. We are at about one half what we were 15 years ago.

Clinton did use our military muscle in more places than any other president since WWII

[khax]

not a lot it just gets deducted out of my paycheck i'm fine with having our military ready to stop direct threats to the united states. but we don't need to be running around trying to be the world's police imo. and i pretty much have realized, no matter who wins my life is going to be minimally affected. i just think it's an interesting topic to discuss.

[Che'_Moderator]

how much do you make? you're probably not doing your deductions right

Clinton did use our military muscle in more places than any other president since WWII

Except he pushed hard to cut military active duty personally by over 20%. When we came to office standing army was just shy of 2 million. Now we barely have 1.3

[gdizzle]

not a lot it just gets deducted out of my paycheck i'm fine with having our military ready to stop direct threats to the united states. but we don't need to be running around trying to be the world's police imo. and i pretty much have realized, no matter who wins my life is going to be minimally affected. i just think it's an interesting topic to discuss.

sure about that?

[khax]

at this point in my life, yes. unless mccain decides to follow up with his prior comment and reinstates a draft. then i will be conveniently 18.

[Che'_Moderator]

You really preparing for WWIII?

[khax]

not particularly. but i will have a lot less preparing to do in the future if mccain stays out of office. i have a feeling the next nuke to blow up somewhere's gonna start more than just WWIII.

[Smithwicks]

at this point in my life, yes. unless mccain decides to follow up with his prior comment and reinstates a draft. then i will be conveniently 18.

unless the Chinese are coming over the border...no draft. thats the way i see it

[Pops Racer]

825,000 Canadians waiting for surgery, 1 million in UK. Canada is 24th of 28 developed nations in number of doctors per 1000 patients. US has higher 5yr survival rate for 13 of 16 most prominent cancers. It could cost a small business $12,000 per yr to insure a family of 4, with the potential for the loss of nearly 225, 000 lower income jobs.

The only thing the US Govt should be doing is provide a potent military, the rest should be left to the states and the free market.

My friend served 2 yrs in USMC, on a base in the Aleutians, guarding a radar station, and patrolling the coast line. He has seen things I can't speak of the Russians do. Sounds like Obama has experience with the border of Wisconsin.

3yrs in Senate? That translates to about 150 days working in DC. He has been on the campaign for 2 yrs, what legislation could he have possibly initiated?

What do you suppose the tax rate and the unemployment rate is in France? I bet >40% and >10%. The govt has its dick in everything over there and it's a mess. See riots of 2 yrs ago. You can't fire anyone.

Lower taxes on 95% of us means higher taxes on business, especially small business, the majority employer in the US. More taxes = less hiring and capital investment. You lose. Fact is tax revenue goes up when taxation is reduced, more businesses are opened more people are hired more businesses expand, increasing the tax base and distributing the burden.

The Fed should not be in the insurance business, or any other for that matter. If it got the hell out of the way and let the free market rule, insurance would be cheaper and more accessible to more people. No one goes untreated any way, I've payed fees for the "uninsured" and watched as uninsured leaped ahead of my mothers emergency visits in the waiting room.

Move to Sweden, I think their tax rate is 60% And its cold. Begone, one less socialist to deal with.

Oh yeah, they should have shot a couple of anarchists, cowardly little pricks. They did not cause any problems or attack anyone in Denver, so I just lump them in with the rest of the left wing wackos in the Democrat party. The crowd they attract is reason enough to vote for McCain.

Left wing wackos are going after Palin, releasing her SSN, and attacking her family- she must present a threat to them, good. I love how they are comparing her to Obama, instead of McCain!! Patton said hold 'em by the nose while you kick 'em in the ass! They'll be so distracted and consumed by her, they will spend a ton of cash trying to filet her, while Johnny Mac gets down to business.

[DonutsDemise]

825,000 Canadians waiting for surgery, 1 million in UK. Canada is 24th of 28 developed nations in number of doctors per 1000 patients. US has higher 5yr survival rate for 13 of 16 most prominent cancers. It could cost a small business $12,000 per yr to insure a family of 4, with the potential for the loss of nearly 225, 000 lower income jobs.

and a family should have to shell that out? it's not that expensive for businesses by the way.

The only thing the US Govt should be doing is provide a potent military, the rest should be left to the states and the free market.

so why do my taxes go to programs backed by republicans like no child left behind. our education system is socialist, should we abolish it?

My friend served 2 yrs in USMC, on a base in the Aleutians, guarding a radar station, and patrolling the coast line. He has seen things I can't speak of the Russians do. Sounds like Obama has experience with the border of Wisconsin.

yes, I'm sure that Russia has a military too. was Palin in the Marines? has she even dealt with national issues? Obama and Biden are in a national legislative body, not running a wildlife preserve of a state and trying to destroy it.

3yrs in Senate? That translates to about 150 days working in DC. He has been on the campaign for 2 yrs, what legislation could he have possibly initiated?

and the other 2.5 years are spent in traffic. so what.

What do you suppose the tax rate and the unemployment rate is in France? I bet >40% and >10%. The govt has its dick in everything over there and it's a mess. See riots of 2 yrs ago. You can't fire anyone.

those riots were French youth and Algerian immigrants pissed at the economy. the tax rate over there isn't much higher for the average person. here it's 15% to 35% in sweden for example its 0%-50%. funny average, right?

Lower taxes on 95% of us means higher taxes on business, especially small business, the majority employer in the US. More taxes = less hiring and capital investment. You lose. Fact is tax revenue goes up when taxation is reduced, more businesses are opened more people are hired more businesses expand, increasing the tax base and distributing the burden.

i get my information from John McCain commercials and he says Obama = More Taxes... McCain also says he'll cut taxes and by his logic, what you said will happen.

The Fed should not be in the insurance business, or any other for that matter. If it got the hell out of the way and let the free market rule, insurance would be cheaper and more accessible to more people. No one goes untreated any way, I've payed fees for the "uninsured" and watched as uninsured leaped ahead of my mothers emergency visits in the waiting room.

If the fed shouldn't be in the insurance business, what are we doing in Iraq? Isn't that an insurance of our safety from terrorists? You know why uninsured people go ahead? Because they have to pay more so the hospital makes more money if they do pay. In a socialist system everyone has to wait in line. Ever been in a military hospital?

Move to Sweden, I think their tax rate is 60% And its cold. Begone, one less socialist to deal with.

they weren't dumb enough to install a flat tax. for what i make i wouldn't pay any more there than i do here.

Oh yeah, they should have shot a couple of anarchists, cowardly little pricks. They did not cause any problems or attack anyone in Denver, so I just lump them in with the rest of the left wing wackos in the Democrat party. The crowd they attract is reason enough to vote for McCain.

anarchists aren't associated with left or right wing. they don't like government, but they obviously hate the right wing more.

Left wing wackos are going after Palin, releasing her SSN, and attacking her family- she must present a threat to them, good. I love how they are comparing her to Obama, instead of McCain!! Patton said hold 'em by the nose while you kick 'em in the ass! They'll be so distracted and consumed by her, they will spend a ton of cash trying to filet her, while Johnny Mac gets down to business.

do you have a McCain centerfold on your wall?

[Che'_Moderator]

and a family should have to shell that out? it's not that expensive for businesses by the way.

All I am saying is if a woman wants fake tits she should not have to wait. Why would you want to delay boobs? Are you communist?

Flat tax would be great. But poor people would shit a spam brick.

[DonutsDemise]

All I am saying is if a woman wants fake tits she should not have to wait.

well damn it! this is america, and she won't have to.

fake tits for some! health insurance for others! novelty american flags for all!

[flyfishing3]

Flat tax would be great.

i'd actucally prefer a sales tax. poor people would shit a 71 VW.

then a flat tax.

[Pops Racer]

Why should a small business have to shell that out? Yes it costs that much. I work for a small business and thats the number for a family of 4.

I don't think you should be taxed at the federal level for those programs, read deeper, I said those programs should belong to the states. Yes we should eliminate the Dept. of Ed. It is so succesfull in producing a quality education in the US.

Yep, they are in a legislative body that is the most useless in US history. Approval rating lower than Bush's.

Being dismissive of the time some one spends at work is not an argument. I pay the SOB almost $220,000 a year, he should be at work. All of them, Republicans included. You try working 150 days in 3 yrs and let me know how that works out for ya.

Yeah, Russia has a military, did you totally miss my point? She commands the state National Guard, and make decisions everyday that affect peoples lives, everyday. Economy, weather issues, industry, all come under her office. She hasn't been running for office for 2 years.

They were pissed at the economy because the Govt runs it. Employers wanted the right to fire inefficient workers, and when that went thru the folks went nuts.

Reducing taxes and increasing tax base is not a McCain thing, it is historical reality.

I'm not going to re-address my own issues. You mistake me for a Republican shill. I have said this before-- I am a Constitutionalist and really don't like either parties politics, but like you I am going with the lesser of 2 evils, and the folks that I feel preserve my rights the most. Palin is refreshing and I know a lot of women like her, including my wife. The numbers I quoted about health care came from Sally Pipes, president and CEO of the Pacific Research Institute, so check them out and tell them they are wrong. History has shown the Socialist experiment to be a failure, world wide. People should govern themselves. You have no problem slamming the existing system yet you are willing to trust them with more of your money, your kids education, social welfare, health care, retirement system, and to fix all the social woes the US has. I want less of that. If I only had half the money I sent to the SS administration, I would be retired with a mass of cash to infuse into the economy. I will never see my Social Security payments. And I speak the truth about left wing wackos, they have spread foul untruths about Palin and her family and some asshole did release her Social Security number to the public. You need to stay current on your facts, pally.

By the way, do you have a centerfold of Marx? Read up on the Communist Manifesto, you may find similar points to the Democrats platform.

Oh brother, I keep having to defend my position, I'm getting tired of it. I've been around for a long time, and seen a ton of shit good and bad, left and right. My military service taught me a lot, but being a father, husband, and tax payer taught me even more. I've been to Europe, most of the US, grew up in New Haven during the '60's. So I rest my case on my experiences and education, you won't change my position.

At least I theoretically cancel out your vote. Unfortunately, CT is a deeply entrenched Dem state, beholden to labor unions and govt employees, so no matter how I vote I'm not represented.

Enjoy the rest of the hot air here, I'm going to talk to my kids about the evil of relying on Govt to solve your problems.

Oh, and could you please capitalize the word America? It's a proper noun.

[DonutsDemise]

At least I theoretically cancel out your vote. Unfortunately, CT is a deeply entrenched Dem state, beholden to labor unions and govt employees, so no matter how I vote I'm not represented.

and I live in Virginia so I have had the same problem the first time I voted, not in 2006 at least.

I'm not used to such a rational argument on the internet

Why should a small business have to shell that out? Yes it costs that much. I work for a small business and thats the number for a family of 4.

I don't think you should be taxed at the federal level for those programs, read deeper, I said those programs should belong to the states. Yes we should eliminate the Dept. of Ed. It is so succesfull in producing a quality education in the US.

Yep, they are in a legislative body that is the most useless in US history. Approval rating lower than Bush's.

Being dismissive of the time some one spends at work is not an argument. I pay the SOB almost $220,000 a year, he should be at work. All of them, Republicans included. You try working 150 days in 3 yrs and let me know how that works out for ya.

touche.

However, I think the Department of Education is essential. The difference in quality of education in different districts within the same state let alone in different states is much to big. I spent most of my K-12 in Fairfax County which has a really good reputation but I have friends that have gone to school in Florida and California who said they felt like idiots when they moved to Fairfax County because of the difference. If you don't have one department trying to manage these problems, the gaps would get bigger.

Yeah, Russia has a military, did you totally miss my point? She commands the state National Guard, and make decisions everyday that affect peoples lives, everyday. Economy, weather issues, industry, all come under her office. She hasn't been running for office for 2 years.

Your friend is in the Marines which is under the Navy whose top command is in the Pentagon. The State National Guard is deployed by the federal government during war, the state government deploys them only internally to quell riots, disaster relief, etc, or if your in the south in the 1950s to prevent desegregation. If an Alaskan National Guard Unit is deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, the state government has no say in whether they stay or go.

They were pissed at the economy because the Govt runs it. Employers wanted the right to fire inefficient workers, and when that went thru the folks went nuts.

I have never read about the French system but it sounds like it sucks. I do know a lot about Scandinavia, however; and their systems do work. I think they are ideal but I know that more than 3 times as many people live between you and me in the United States. The demographic differences make it extremely hard to implement the welfare based programs I would like to see.

And I speak the truth about left wing wackos, they have spread foul untruths about Palin and her family and some asshole did release her Social Security number to the public. You need to stay current on your facts, pally.

I didn't say I support that. I am not a left wing militant. They are what you say, wackos.

Oh brother, I keep having to defend my position, I'm getting tired of it. I've been around for a long time, and seen a ton of shit good and bad, left and right. My military service taught me a lot, but being a father, husband, and tax payer taught me even more. I've been to Europe, most of the US, grew up in New Haven during the '60's. So I rest my case on my experiences and education, you won't change my position.

I know I'm not going to change your position. I am only 22 so you are more likely to change mine on some things. If I may go OT as if this thread isn't already, when did you serve and in what branch? Just curious. My dad was in the Army for 20 years and his dad was drafted into the Navy during WWII. I wanted to join but I think the leadership over the past decade has been ineffective so that turned me off to the idea.

I appreciate your well defended argument. I wasn't leaving America uncapitalized out of disrespect or stupidity, just laziness.

I know Obama doesn't stand for what you believe in, but John McCain doesn't sound like a great candidate for you either. While his platform does support the economic policies that you prefer, what about small government in other areas like security. It doesn't sound like you would support some of the tenets of Patriot Act but that was a major victory for the Republican Party.