The Real Obama

[Pops Racer]

I do try to glean some numbers at least it gives me something to follow up on and check. They usually contain convenient omissions and distortions. You know you can make numbers say what you need them to. I'm trying to de-cypher tax plans now. I've found some stuff Obama hasnt mentioned, like 12.5% increase in SS tax and 2% increase in Medicare tax. Plus the math aint right either, spending vs revenue. And the thresholds keep changing. And no doubt the 43% that pay no taxes will get $500 "rebate" for an individual. Sounds like more vote buying.

Tito The Builder for Prez!!

[Smithwicks]

I do try to glean some numbers at least it gives me something to follow up on and check. They usually contain convenient omissions and distortions. You know you can make numbers say what you need them to. I'm trying to de-cypher tax plans now. I've found some stuff Obama hasnt mentioned, like 12.5% increase in SS tax and 2% increase in Medicare tax. Plus the math aint right either, spending vs revenue. And the thresholds keep changing. And no doubt the 43% that pay no taxes will get $500 "rebate" for an individual. Sounds like more vote buying.

Tito The Builder for Prez!!

Lol. The whole argument over taxes and tax breaks really makes me laugh. Am I right in saying that both candidates are basically promising less taxes but more spending for programs? And am I correct in saying that if we are dipping into a recession that means people will be making less and therefore less tax revenue for the government? Thats why I hate both of them because neither fiscally responsible in any way, shape, or form.

But I guess you cant promise potential voters that you wont give them as much as the other candidate...

[Pops Racer]

Lol. The whole argument over taxes and tax breaks really makes me laugh. Am I right in saying that both candidates are basically promising less taxes but more spending for programs? And am I correct in saying that if we are dipping into a recession that means people will be making less and therefore less tax revenue for the government? Thats why I hate both of them because neither fiscally responsible in any way, shape, or form.

But I guess you cant promise potential voters that you wont give them as much as the other candidate...

Don't hate, it's bad for your heart.

And yes to your questions. I just talked to my small business owner buddy. He reminded me that if your SS taxes increase, he has to match that contribution. Now who's hiring after that burden?

I'm smelling Hoover trying to get out of the Great Depression. You gotta cut spending. If you raise taxes, real revenue declines.

This could get bad. Employment did not improve until 20 years after Hoover/ Roosevelt tax policies. And that was with a manufacturing boom due to WWII.

All taxes, fees, and increases in any operating costs get passed onto the consumer. Plain fact. Money stays in your pocket, and business struggles. Bad,bad,bad.

[Boost_Junky]

http://www.factcheck.org/

I like that site. Most of it seems to be right on.

When it comes to spreading BS the republicans seem to outgun the dems 2 to 1 at least by the way,

+1

they're just on auto-believe.

That is soooo true!

This could get bad.

I know I scream some humanitarian stuff, but I am not for free rides. I think we can do a better job of taking care of our people by making some of the basic needs more accessable. Regardless, I agree, this is going to get real bad...

[DonutsDemise]

Its pretty sad that this is the only way America has to end up with a president. Bullshit from both sides, silly accusations, irrelevant things being brought up left and right...both campaigns are not shy to send downright lies into the airwaves. Intelligence and qualification are irrelevant, just come up with populist BS and you'll be all right. You'd think there would be some basic rules to something this important but instead but it's just the world's longest shouting match.

And whoever manages to look the least bad in all this becomes president, yay. Ludicrous. Its idiocy not democracy.

Europe has better cars, better highways, multiparty democracy, better beer, better food (well in many ways except bbq), real sugar in your soda, and Champion's League at a regular hour. Europe is better than the USA. Thanks my Belgian friend.

:lol:

[Pops Racer]

Europe has better cars, better highways, multiparty democracy, better beer, better food (well in many ways except bbq), real sugar in your soda, and Champion's League at a regular hour. Europe is better than the USA. Thanks my Belgian friend.

Yup, and Americans are leaving in droves to emigrate to Europe.

Folks are still beating down the borders to get into this country, cursing it all the way. Wonder why?

Still no comment on the invasion of privacy inflicted on this Joe the Plumber guy, and the loud silence of the ACLU on it? If it was an Arab Terrorist they would have surrounded him, in lawyers. Hypocrites. The removal of 3 newspapers from Obama campaign plane, supression of info on Obama shady associations, the condemnation of a Florida news anchor, for asking hard questions, begs to the question of how freedom of the press will be addressed by Dear Leader and his cohorts in Congress and Senate, not too mention his future judges. If this does not concern you, don't complain about the Patriot Act. And watch out if you disagree with the Party in power for the next 4-8 yrs. With no checks and balances, this society could turn eevn more rotten real fast. By the way, probably already mentioned, but he couldnt get a low level CIA job if they did a background check. But you want him to be President.

"The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts."

Edmund Burke

Burke Profile Link

[JCviggen]

multiparty democracy

Many parties aren't always better. In Belgium we usually need at least 3 parties to form a majority so needless to say they each have their own program and in the end nobody ever agrees on anything.

[DonutsDemise]

Many parties aren't always better. In Belgium we usually need at least 3 parties to form a majority so needless to say they each have their own program and in the end nobody ever agrees on anything.

that's true. however, it's one step farther away from a one party system. totalitarianism is the most efficient but no one wants that! the two party system means I have to vote for people I agree with 60% of the time but disagree with 40% of the time.

[DonutsDemise]

Yup, and Americans are leaving in droves to emigrate to Europe.

Folks are still beating down the borders to get into this country, cursing it all the way. Wonder why?

I don't wonder why. People migrate over the easiest path to a better place. If you could get to Europe as easily, cheaply, and quickly as you can get to the United States from Central America, I would put my money on people migrating to Europe not the USA. It's a matter of geography not whether or not the USA is the best and most free country on Earth because it's only one of them, it just happens to be across the river from Mexico.

[Pops Racer]

I don't wonder why. People migrate over the easiest path to a better place. If you could get to Europe as easily, cheaply, and quickly as you can get to the United States from Central America, I would put my money on people migrating to Europe not the USA. It's a matter of geography not whether or not the USA is the best and most free country on Earth because it's only one of them, it just happens to be across the river from Mexico.

Hmmm... I'm thinking it's about opportunity. Or the ease with which folks can get social benefits. South of the border is not the only direction folks want to come from. And your still here arn't you? And you have connections over seas. I've been to Europe

3 times in the last 30 yrs, interesting, informative, educational Beautiful people and country sides, and I loved London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and especially the area of Westphailia ( SP?) in Germany. Good beers, food, and soccer, which I love.

But after 10 days I always wanted to be home. In hi tax CT, USA.

Speaking of hi taxes, Obama said $250k ceiling for tax hike, then he said $200k, Biden came out with $150k, now Bill Richardson says $120k, and some Obama campaign rep says $250k-$200k. Whats it gonna be? See my Edmund Burke quote about nibbling away.

This guy is still a moving target, he's so slick I can't pin anything on him. I know nothing about him. Cool he was endorsed by Al-Quida, some Arab business man paid his tuition at Columbia. If all this BS was on McCains record the left would be setting the world on fire about it all.

Best line of the campaign by The Governator: "John McCain served more time for the US in a prison camp than Obama served in the US Senate." I paraphrase, but not much.

My economic plan: Cut taxes and reduce spending. real simple and it will work. Flat tax or consumption/ use tax. The Reagan tax cuts would have worked if the spending by Congress had been reduced. But they spent the recored surplus like drunken Cavalry soldiers. Its not just the Prez that matters.

Again still no comment on my plumber question. I've got a lot of them in this thread that no one spoke on. Oh well.

And if Obama plan does not work, how long before they blame it on past administration? When do I get to complain about Obama and his Congress? If stock market continues to stagnate, and small business doesnt grow, when do I get to cry FAIL?

Will you guys on the other side of the debate side with me? If he is succesfull and I start doing better and the country rebounds, I'll cheer him on. I like money, and thats how he'll be judged.

[MikeG]

My economic plan: Cut taxes and reduce spending. real simple and it will work. Flat tax or consumption/ use tax. The Reagan tax cuts would have worked if the spending by Congress had been reduced. But they spent the recored surplus like drunken Cavalry soldiers. Its not just the Prez that matters.

I wish more people in our country understood that there's more to Washington than the oval office. The fact is that everyone's getting so hung up on the popularity contest of Pres/VP that they're losing sight of the roles of the other branches (and the people's role too, btw) in the government.

No matter who gets elected, we should all be writing to our representatives and staying on their asses. In my opinion, you can't bitch about the government until after you've participated (voting, communicating with representatives, etc.) because you're part of it.

(Still voting for Ted Nugent) ;)

[Pops Racer]

I wish more people in our country understood that there's more to Washington than the oval office. The fact is that everyone's getting so hung up on the popularity contest of Pres/VP that they're losing sight of the roles of the other branches (and the people's role too, btw) in the government.

No matter who gets elected, we should all be writing to our representatives and staying on their asses. In my opinion, you can't bitch about the government until after you've participated (voting, communicating with representatives, etc.) because you're part of it.

(Still voting for Ted Nugent)

Ahh, so refreshing. Wangooo zeeee Tangoooo! If I get to keep more of my money I promise I'll spend it, personally leading the economic recovery. I'm voting for me.

[Zappo]

(Still voting for Ted Nugent)

I got an NRA robocall on my cell phone yesterday. Isn't he the spokesman now?

Nugent would take more vacation than Bush. He would be out bow hunting all the time. :lol:

[Pops Racer]

Not a bad life if you can get it, huh? Hot wife, awesome ranch. I don't hunt, I fish, but I get it.

I heard Gene Simmons was asked about running. He basically said "Not enough money for the hassle". DA MAN.

[7 VII 7]

sweet... Obama wanting death to Israel and bankrupting Coal companies!

I just do not understand people that are still supporting him with ties and communication AND him backing a socialist person and organization