Plea For Help: Engine Whine In 4ch Amp

[The Reverend]

You said one 12 isn't enough...

not enough for what?

TBoyko

What exactly are you looking for? What kind of sound would you like?

[bogelo]

You said one 12 isn't enough...

not enough for what?

Not enough to produce hearable, clean bass coz you'll be hearing mainly from the driver seat. If you have only 1 12", you'll have to work it hard and make the bass very unclean.

You can get a clean sound using 1 12" in a ported/sealed box but you have to use a high power sub + a high power amp (> 500W RMS)

OR

you can use a small power sub + a small power amp (< 500W RMS), and a bandpass box.

[tboyko]

My musical tastes are sort of all over the place, but I want something more smooth than harsh...but at the same time I listen to music with double kick pedals on occassion and i want to have my sub firing like a machine gun during those times. I actually really like how my setup sounds now with my four channel amp, but I just can't crank it up much without having to reduce the bass...the speakers just cant handle it (or maybe its my amp?)

[bogelo]

My musical tastes are sort of all over the place, but I want something more smooth than harsh...but at the same time I listen to music with double kick pedals on occassion and i want to have my sub firing like a machine gun during those times.  I actually really like how my setup sounds now with my four channel amp, but I just can't crank it up much without having to reduce the bass...the speakers just cant handle it (or maybe its my amp?)

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It's not your amp or your speaker (maybe they contribute a little), all you need is: frequency separation.

That's why you need frequency separation, let the small speakers take care of the mid-bass and highs (vocals) then your subwoofer handles the lows (bass... thump thump thump).

[The Reverend]

I don't think that is true. My friend has a single twelve inch in a sealed box and it is darn loud, way too loud for most music. It is not powered by 600 watts or anything. It is just loud. I don't think a bandpass is necessary unless he just wants lud bass at a specific frequency.

I will let you know how my dual 10's in a sealed box powered with 200 watts each sound after i install them.

[bogelo]

I don't think that is true. My friend has a single twelve inch in a sealed box and it is darn loud, way too loud for most music. It is not powered by 600 watts or anything. It is just loud. I don't think a bandpass is necessary unless he just wants lud bass at a specific frequency.

I will let you know how my dual 10's in a sealed box powered with 200 watts each sound after i install them.

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I have used my nakamichi 12" in a sealed and I ended up getting a bandpass. My friend also has running 1 12" xtant A-series in a sealed and he's not satisfied.

You can do whatever you want, I'm just suggesting what I know from my experience. Have you tried 1 12" in a volvo? Well, I did.

As I mentioned above, 1 12" can be loud, but the bass will not be clean if there's not enough wattage or if you push it to the max. Why don't u go with 1 12" setup? And let me know after that.

p.s: 2 10" != 1 12".

Good luck.

[wattsat]

I have 1 10" JL in a sealed box in the trunk powered by an Xtant 202M Mono@1.8ohms and it is more than enough. Anything with deep bass causes the standard Hair vibrations even with the back seats up.

If a single 10" or 12" does not have enough umph for your setup you are probably more concerned about SPL and waking the neighborhood than you are abou sound quality.

I listen to a wide range of music from Edie Brickell to The Crystal Method. The only thing lacking in my setup is good midbass. The 5.25's in the doors are not enough. I currently have 1 6" in a sealed box on the floor in the back and it fills the gap nicely but looks like crap.

[bogelo]

I have 1 10" JL in a sealed box in the trunk powered by an Xtant 202M Mono@1.8ohms  and it is more than enough.  Anything with deep bass causes the standard Hair vibrations even with the back seats up.

If a single 10" or 12" does not have enough umph for your setup you are probably more concerned about SPL and waking the neighborhood than you are abou sound quality.

I listen to a wide range of music from Edie Brickell to The Crystal Method.  The only thing lacking in my setup is good midbass.  The 5.25's in the doors are not enough.  I currently have 1 6" in a sealed box on the floor in the back and it fills the gap nicely but looks like crap.

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There could be many things with this audio thingy. Brand, wattage, box, etc, etc. I know JL is one of a good loud sub and xtant is also a good amp (they are both sometimes under-rated).

Well, All my mids & tweeter are very strong. It all depends on what your setup is. There could be nothing wrong with 2 12", you can always lower your sub channel if you think you think it has too much bass.

But if you only have 1 sub and you don't think its enough, it might be another hassle to add another sub (especially you already made custom box). Better safe than sorry.

The definition of SQL also includes loud, clear, rich. That's what mcIntosh amp stands for, the amp is made so that it knows when it's clipping which occurs at high volume and suppress it, thus providing clear sounds.

[The Reverend]

I don't understand how 2 10's are equivalent to 1 12 inch speaker. The greater the surface area, the more air is moved. A single twelve is as follows:

Pi*6^2 = 36*Pi = about 113.097 in^2

two 10's

2*Pi*5^2 = 50*Pi = 157.08 in^2

the tens have approximately 138.889 % more surface area than a single twelve inch driver.

If you want to talk about frequency response, there is certainly a difference between a 10 inch and 12 inch driver, but in terms of output, two drivers of identical build quality only differing in their radius will give you that much more output.

[bogelo]

I don't understand how 2 10's are equivalent to 1 12 inch speaker. The greater the surface area, the more air is moved. A single twelve is as follows:

Pi*6^2 = 36*Pi = about 113.097 in^2

two 10's

2*Pi*5^2 = 50*Pi = 157.08 in^2

the tens have approximately 138.889 % more surface area than a single twelve inch driver.

If you want to talk about frequency response, there is certainly a difference between a 10 inch and 12 inch driver, but in terms of output, two drivers of identical build quality only differing in their radius will give you that much more output.

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138%? I believe it is 28% more surface area, according to your calculation.

Don't forget how deep the sub can go and angle of the cone, that would make a lot of difference on the air movement that will effect the frequency Anyway, I just don't know what you want to point out.

It's just so many factors that you need to count in when you do electronics and physics. I believe that 2 subs are always better and will produce more clear bass than 1 sub (but not better, only if you can't adjust your sub output).

[The Reverend]

Lol,

Of course i make a math error right after I am done with calculus

I should have said it has 138% of the surface area of the single twelve instead of 138% more. Multiply the area of the 12 by 1.38 and you will get appr. the area of the 10s

same as saying that the 12 has 72% of the surface area of the 10's

The point I was making is that if you want more output, one of the ways you can do this is by moving more air. You said that 2 10's are equal to one 12. One way to move more air is to add more surface area, AKA adding more drivers. If a 12 has less surface area than 2 10's, then it theoretically moves less air than the 10's.

Yeah

Colin

[bogelo]

The point I was making is that if you want more output, one of the ways you can do this is by moving more air. You said that 2 10's are equal to one 12. One way to move more air is to add more surface area, AKA adding more drivers. If a 12 has less surface area than 2 10's, then it theoretically moves less air than the 10's.

I didn't say 1 12" = 2 10"

I said 1 12" != 2 10"

[The Reverend]

Does that mean that 2 10s are not equal to 1 12?

:o

[bogelo]

Does that mean that 2 10s are not equal to 1 12?

←

! -> not

= -> equal

!= -> not equal

[tboyko]

Ok, so what differences will i notice between two 10s and two 12s? I would expect a difference in the smoothness or responsiveness of the sound?

I basically am looking at getting one 12", two 10s, or two 12s, a box, and an amp. i really want to get a good deal and not necissarily have to go buy each component seperately. Anyone have any ideas how I can aquire a premade type of setup, maybe preowned? I guess the newspapers are a good place to start...

How much power do I generally need for a single 12 or 10? Right now I have a 50Wx4 in the trunk for my front components and my rear coaxials but i would obviously need a new amp for just a sub or two. The thing is, I laid down a 4 gauge power wire so that I could put a sub amp on it without having to rewire (my other amp only requires an 8 gauge). Does that give me enough diameter to pull off another amp? I would think I would need a distribution block...