JesterKB Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Jerry, "Goose" did hit the canopy in Hollywood made "Top Gun" factual or not still possible? " I think the vehicle needs stem seals and possibly guides. Wouldn't hurt to try an oil trap with breather system service before pullin the head. But symptoms on the valve oil leakage/breech are all there. My hobby in outdoor model trains deals with "civil" engineering every change of season. Thanks for the challenge's and theory! MrWinkeyI concur with the vale stem seals. Has all the classic signs. I had been hesitant earlier as I had heard several times the seals were "bullet proof".I wouldn't think Goose could hit the canopy, but the issue of a flat spin was correct, it can happen (I'm an X-Air Force and Navy pilot too). Never flew the fighters though, mostly a KC-135's and an A-3's later in the reserves for a short time. New generation aircraft use small rocket motors to move the canopy physically off the aircraft (F16, F-18 and F-22), slightly older versions like the F-15 use a thruster tube (think of a propellant actuated strut extension on steroids). All of these systems I'm very familiar with. However the F-14 was before my time (I was still flying them at that point). My guess is that it is a Martin Baker zero-zero seat (able to eject with zero elevation and zero air speed). If that is the case, then it is physically using something to remove the canopy out of harms way, but to tell the truth I really don't know for sure. The S-3, AV-8B, T-MK10 all use "through the canopy" systems. A bit much to explain here. I'll bet we have someone in the forum that would know however, so jump in!I'm jealous of your train set. I have a Lionel from the early 50's (#2020). Finally did in the small solenoid actuated internal electric switch last year and rebuilt it this year. WORKS GREAT!!! BTW I'm a PA boy myself from near the Pittsburgh area now living in CA where I got out of the service; liked it and stayed.Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drj434343 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 MrWinkeyI concur with the vale stem seals. Has all the classic signs. I had been hesitant earlier as I had heard several times the seals were "bullet proof".Will leaky valve stem seals show up in a compression test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64pvolvo1800 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Will leaky valve stem seals show up in a compression test?No, they won't. I have the same problem you do, just not to the same extent apparently. I figure it's either the turbo seals or the valve stem seals. I have a spare 15G to swap out for my 13G and then I'll know for sure. Truth is though....I can add a fraction of a quart every 2500-300 or just chang emy oil a little more frequently for a long time before it makes economic sense to pull the head and change the seals. Now, if it was burning every 1000 miles or smoking at a stoplight, I'd do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drj434343 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 No, they won't. I have the same problem you do, just not to the same extent apparently. I figure it's either the turbo seals or the valve stem seals. I have a spare 15G to swap out for my 13G and then I'll know for sure. Truth is though....I can add a fraction of a quart every 2500-300 or just chang emy oil a little more frequently for a long time before it makes economic sense to pull the head and change the seals. Now, if it was burning every 1000 miles or smoking at a stoplight, I'd do it now.The difference between valve seals and turbo seals is a big unknown for the same symptoms, there has got to be another way to tell, especially if the compression test comes back ok. I loath trying to remove my turbo just to peek inside for play, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWinkey Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 MrWinkeyI concur with the vale stem seals. Has all the classic signs. I had been hesitant earlier as I had heard several times the seals were "bullet proof".I wouldn't think Goose could hit the canopy, but the issue of a flat spin was correct, it can happen (I'm an X-Air Force and Navy pilot too). Never flew the fighters though, mostly a KC-135's and an A-3's later in the reserves for a short time. New generation aircraft use small rocket motors to move the canopy physically off the aircraft (F16, F-18 and F-22), slightly older versions like the F-15 use a thruster tube (think of a propellant actuated strut extension on steroids). All of these systems I'm very familiar with. However the F-14 was before my time (I was still flying them at that point). My guess is that it is a Martin Baker zero-zero seat (able to eject with zero elevation and zero air speed). If that is the case, then it is physically using something to remove the canopy out of harms way, but to tell the truth I really don't know for sure. The S-3, AV-8B, T-MK10 all use "through the canopy" systems. A bit much to explain here. I'll bet we have someone in the forum that would know however, so jump in!I'm jealous of your train set. I have a Lionel from the early 50's (#2020). Finally did in the small solenoid actuated internal electric switch last year and rebuilt it this year. WORKS GREAT!!! BTW I'm a PA boy myself from near the Pittsburgh area now living in CA where I got out of the service; liked it and stayed.JerryWOW! You have currently locked my brain, actually I think it's internally bleeding from your response! I'm not educated, just an experienced blue collar American worker and proud of it! The NFL Coors Light commercial quote... "Are you kidding me"??... You seriously do that for a living and you wanna talk trains??? gotta respect that! David The difference between valve seals and turbo seals is a big unknown for the same symptoms, there has got to be another way to tell, especially if the compression test comes back ok. I loath trying to remove my turbo just to peek inside for play, etc.Search here is your friend! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesterKB Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm not educated, just an experienced blue collar American worker and proud of it! The NFL Coors Light commercial quote... "Are you kidding me"??... You seriously do that for a living and you wanna talk trains??? gotta respect that! David David, Glad you used the term "not educated", I was lucky and was able to get a decent education. Where I currently work, we hold these events where we bring in folks from many different disciplines and try to solve production problems, Many of our "blue collar" workers can really get into creative thinking and can give us engineers a real run for the money! For me it's experience that really counts, which is why I'm not always comfortable giving advice or aiding in trouble shooting unless I have the actual experience, and that's where you'll blow me out of the water! I might be able to take a design issue and find a solution for it, but when it comes to fixing cars, it's not about design, it's about experience. I bow to you and your experience. I'm also into model airplane (gee, go figure). I'm currently teaching the grandsons how to build and fly a control line airplane, with the emphasis on "build" . Once they crash it, then we'll get into REPAIR Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWinkey Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drj434343 Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 New data! Did a compression test this afternoon. Took some pictures of the spark plugs in the process. Also inspected the turbo and intercooler hoses, looking for oil.Pressure on cylinders 1-5 was 175, 175, 171, 173, 178, so I think I may be good there. Notice the included pictures of my spark plugs. They're new copper core plugs with 4000 miles. The buildup seems pretty normal, with maybe a bit too much white, which I think indicates some oil burn. What do you think? For reference, I'm using a blend of 5-30 and 10-30 Mobil 1.Below are some pictures of my intercooler pipes. Klaus once mentioned that gunk in the pipes could indicate oil burn was due to turbo seals. Most of the piping seemed pretty clean, except at the joints, where you can see liquid oil has built up, especially right at the turbo outlet. How much oil in these lines is too much?Based on what other's have said, these results rule out piston rings and perhaps a head gasket. That leaves valve stems or turbo seals? Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWinkey Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 The oil in the turbo hoses is normal. You may want to service the breather system though. Oil trap etc. But your original post on symptoms are more than likely stem seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drj434343 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 The oil in the turbo hoses is normal. You may want to service the breather system though. Oil trap etc. But your original post on symptoms are more than likely stem seals.The breather system is the same as the PCV system, correct? May I ask what about my photos makes you believe I should service it?Are valve stem seals something I can do myself? Does the head need to be removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drj434343 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 One other question occurs to me. Would valve stem seals show themselves in either a rough running engine, or reduced gas mileage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
port0222 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Any updates? My car started ticking really bad on the way home yesterday. and when i got home, the oil light came on. Now I am getting smoke out my exhaust (white) but does not smell like antifreeze, it smells like burnt oil.I will start a new thread, but i was checking in to see if there was any updates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drj434343 Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Any updates? My car started ticking really bad on the way home yesterday. and when i got home, the oil light came on. Now I am getting smoke out my exhaust (white) but does not smell like antifreeze, it smells like burnt oil.I will start a new thread, but i was checking in to see if there was any updates?From some other forums I've learned that burning oil through the valve stem seals doesn't necessarily reduce mileage, but if excessive oil burning gunks up your oxygen sensors or cat, that can reduce the milage. I'm still pricing out a valve job at local shops.As for your issue, the most I can guess on now is that you were running really low on oil. The clicking occurs when there isn't enough oil to get up into the valves. That usually means you only have 1-2 quarts left. The loss of oil could be attributed to anything at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drj434343 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I've priced out the job at two places and got some insane answers. A place called the V-Shop in Portland (that only does Volvos) quoted $3000-$3300. They do good honest work but are usually pricey. They charge $83 and hour and usually 12-14 hours for the job. He said they always take off the head to do this work, and essentially rebuild it, including a new head gasket, timing belt, and all valve seals. Even at 14 hours that's $2000 worth of parts. Not sure what's going on.I called another shop in San Diego that I've used for years and trust explicitly. He said $2500-$3000 and that they remove the head and perform a similar procedure. He also gave me some advice. He said most of the modern Volvo turbos burn a hell of a lot of oil, and that it's almost always the turbo before the valves. He also suggested just driving it until I burn out an exhaust valve and then contemplate doing the job then. They apparently burn those out eventually, but that until then, burning some oil through the valves won't hurt anything, just keep adding oil. If I think it may be the turbo, I can order a rebuilt kit for $150 from Turbo City in LA and do the job myself.Can't I buy a rebuilt head for $500? I feel like I've read that around here. I'd just try to put it on myself.Ugh, frustrating. For $3300 I can pick myself up a sweet 240 and be done with this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesterKB Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 If I think it may be the turbo, I can order a rebuilt kit for $150 from Turbo City in LA and do the job myself.Can't I buy a rebuilt head for $500? I feel like I've read that around here. I'd just try to put it on myself.Ugh, frustrating. For $3300 I can pick myself up a sweet 240 and be done with this mess.Pull the head, take to a valve shop for rebuild, and put it back on. Not much different than buying one. OR get one at the yard, rebuild it (or not), put it on, and toss the old one.Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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