Kit Vexed Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 just finished my front end suspension job on my t-5r with Bilstein HD's, IPD HD seats, end links, sway bar, KYB mounts and H&R's. i called up the alignment shop and they're up in arms about the lowering of the car, talking about 'getting in there' and 'starting from scratch if the machine says the camber is waay off.' now it's my understanding that the H&R's were on the more mild side as far as a lowering spring. do i really need the camber bolts for this set up? doesn't even look like the camber is out of wack when i was done with the work? i always thought camber bolts were necessary only for like cars with dramatic lowering; like cutting coils, etc. also, the car is sitting a half-inch lower on the driver side? is it normal to have one side be lower than the other? i was thinking of swapping the pass side to the driver side so the driver side was a half-inch higher, than would drop the half inch when im actually in the car driving, and even the sides out?? let me know ya'll ;o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost3237 Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 h&r drop the car pretty well. Don't waste your money on camber bolts, once you take a turn over 20mph you'll get positive camber that will negate what the camber bolts do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanehutton Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 h&r drop the car pretty well. Don't waste your money on camber bolts, once you take a turn over 20mph you'll get positive camber that will negate what the camber bolts do. Fail. It won't negate the negative camber. The whole reason for having negative camber is to help keep the tire less positive (thus flatter) while cornering. To the OP. -The springs should settle so check to see if the left right variance goes away in a week or two. -The strut - steering knuckle actually has about 2 degrees of play in it without the bolts so you may be able to get it correct without the bolts. I have -1 deg. with the stock bolts on a lowered car.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost3237 Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Fail. It won't negate the negative camber. The whole reason for having negative camber is to help keep the tire less positive (thus flatter) while cornering. To the OP. -The springs should settle so check to see if the left right variance goes away in a week or two. -The strut - steering knuckle actually has about 2 degrees of play in it without the bolts so you may be able to get it correct without the bolts. I have -1 deg. with the stock bolts on a lowered car.. let me put it another way... the camber bolts do no help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Vexed Posted June 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 since this is mostly used as a DD, tire wear (since i have 225 35 18) is probably paramount. wont a tad of neg camber wear my inside tread? and vice versa for the positive? i looked in the manual and it actually gives the factory specs for camber (and toe) for when you get the car aligned... should i negate the factory specs seeing as i dont have the stock wheels/tires on the car? should i assume the best setup for an alignment would be a tad of negative for the cornering? again, i want even treadwear - tires aint cheap! i guess you're both right either way; camber bolts are either useless and/or the factory setup has enough adjustment for me to get away with it without having to use them. as far as the uneven ride height in front, iPd says (on the site) 3/8" to 1/2" discrepency is okay. im just @ the 1/2" diff from the front drive vs. front pass. would the mounts make a diff??? when i opened up the KYB mounts i bought, one was gold and one was black? maybe they're not the same, but they fit, so would a diff mount from side to side make a diff? im thinking someone @ the wearhouse may have taken one from the box and replaced it with another.. who knows. maybe when i put the struts on, i put more positive camber on the pass side and more negative on the drivers, making it appear to be uneven when flat on the ground? the alignment shop should hopefully help even the difference... all thoughts, ideas, opinions welcome! please keep them coming as im not getting the car aligned till Monday (6/29). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autotechnica Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 let me put it another way... the camber bolts do no help. EPIC FAIL! Why do you say that? Like shanehutton said, the whole point is to keep the tires flatter through the corners, not keep -ve camber through the corners. I had 0 degrees of camber in the front when I first did my alignment with my KW V2's. My street tire's sidewalls are mushy as hell so they roll over quite easily. I decided to install camber bolts and I put -1 degree in the front. What a difference it made in cornering, the car was so much flatter through the corners and I could feel less roll over on the sidewalls, especially at auto-x. Not to mention my 215/45/17's use to rub like crazy, after correcting the camber they no longer rub. With my current setup I don't get uneven treadwear. I've gone through 2 sets of tires now. One negative thing to note, the -ve camber did decrease straight line traction, I have a bit more wheelspin now. I hate cars with +ve camber, they look like crap and they handle like crap. BTW, camber bolts are like $20. Even if you feel they are a waste of money $20 is pocket change. I'm sure you don't track the car or even corner hard, otherwise you wouldn't have made that comment. That's like saying a bigger turbo is no help, but you never go beyond 20% throttle. Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Vexed Posted June 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 the other thing i was thinking was - i have 35 profile tires??? i would assume that even with the alignment 0'd out, the tires would be hard pressed to get positive camber or fold over around corners?? am i wrong? as said before, treadwear IS paramount and i just want the best possible touch of both handling and treadwear. i DO have a set of Eibach camber bolts, but with the said -1 deg of play on the stock knuckle i guess i dont need them?? guys, when it comes to the technical stuff of alignments, etc. i really am quite the novice. i can do the hardware portion of any suspension setup (most people only do the iPd rear sway cause they're terrified of tackling the front, but i didnt have a problem). i do what i can, like all of us, to save money. i have no formal teachings of mechanics, i just take things apart and figure out how to put them back together. BUT, when it comes to technical things: alignments and even A/F ratios - im clueless. i admit that. so im trying to get a decisive solution as to whether i should install the camber bolts and let them figure it out, or if the stock bolts will give the correct alignment... im torn cause some say they dont work, other say they DO.. then i read they DO but i wont need them, lol. i really appreciate all the responses, and i hope we can all come to an agreement for future people with similiar queries ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanehutton Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 Bring the bolts with you when you go for the alignment and tell them to use them IF they can't get the camber right with the stock bolts. If you aren't looking for the absolute best cornering then just have them set it to factory specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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