ROB @ VMS Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 yeah. you want to use nitrous for some top end power. Nitrous itself makes more torque than hp so ur torque curve will hold if ur car doesnt freek or blow up cause you did do the other steps. Basicly here is what i would do for some of you guys running stock T5 motors. I would NOT chip the car because of the ignition maps they use, maybe be too agressive for nitrous. I would then install a 255lph pump. Then you can go 2 ways wet or dry. Dry you will have to increause fuel pressure and it would be nice to increase injector duty cycle but isnt able to be done like it should yet. I would go for a Wet system and tap off ur rail for fuel or one of the lines. Having a nice pump will insure fuel pressure and you could run 35-50shot . I would have a nice free flowing exhuast. Also go a step colder in your plug range and see if the car can still clean them , u wont be using nitrous all the time anyways, and if it does great you have a good start and are ready to use the system. I would suggest using the first spray on a dyno or with a Wideband 02 hooked up to monitor AF readings. Other than that ur on ur wau to more power and fun. hows that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHEIII874T5M Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 I agree Rob, just I always like to add window switches... set the rpm window say 3500 - 6000 RPM... and that fuel rail schraeder valve is always a fun trick just makes it a bit obvious.... but they that's why we have black electrical tape and wire covers :monkey: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 I don't understand why you guys are suggesting high levels of tuning for higher level wet shots?The kits are designed to be used (when properly implemented) for occasional extra high end power...If you have a peak power of 330-350 whp only occasionally, and it happens at high rpms, I don't see what the problem is. Most wet kits are designed to be used on cars with stock tuning.I bet if you properly implement a 100- or 125- wet nitrous shot (maybe 3500-6000, WOT, multi-port injected, etc) and didn't use it every time you got on the throttle, you could run mid 13s and have a pretty reliable car.The 255 lph pump is a good idea, I'd probably do it... But not sure if it's totally necessary? That's a lot of fuel ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Doug, while I understand that the boost pressure "down low" will bend rods, basically we're saying it's the amount of power "down low" that is bending the rods?←Obviously...the differences in force from a little more boost are negligible in the grand scheme of things...its the fact you're making too much power...Essentially if you have torque X at 2000 rpm or the same number X at 4000 rpm, the rods get much less force on them at 4k rpm...since they can do 2 cycles instead of 1 for the same amount of power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHEIII874T5M Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 but see, I think doug is considering we're spraying off the line or from a very low RPM, I along with others are simply saying spray at 3500+ and things should go wellbtw... going from a 35 to a 50 to a 75 shot only takes a few seconds lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DougK Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 I don't understand why you guys are suggesting high levels of tuning for higher level wet shots?←Oh no eric, not at all. I was sayin for over a 100 shot I'd be weary of just doing it in a wet shot w/out atleast a wideband to read.I have to work some more, I"ll post my over all thoughts in a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB @ VMS Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 The safe way is with a WOT switch and a Rpm window switch set for 4000-6000. Also wet kits are designed for alot of cars but cars being turbocharged have alot different ignition maps and nitrous needs to be done correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromtheshadows Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 yeah I dont think I implied that I would be hitting a 25 shot right off the line, I dont even know if my trans will hold that. I was talking about spooling up to max boost. Im chipped with a stong setting, but the technology that is applied with some of these wet system controllers is being totally underestimated here. Yes they are expensiver . But with the progressive programming ability along with AF reading that the controller takes itself take the guesswork out of it. I was planning on getting a higher flow fuel pump but I agree its not necessary. Im only going venom because I have experience with their fogger system and had no problems at all. And with the new computer controlled modules if I decide to go from modest to full engine build up crazy, I wont have to buy another system. I wont be using it all the time? youre right. the bottle has to run out sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DougK Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Ashman yes and no. I still think using a rather large shot of NOS for spool up (ie low rpm) is a much more dangerous proposal than running it 4-7k. Though all things considered with stock internals you can easily run to the ragged limits of the bottom end on turbo alone... why use expensive NOS instead?If you run some sort of progressive controller (NEX/Venom like your mentioning or NOS sells one) you basicly end up with a similar curve of NOS to turbo.Now.. a VMS bottom end.. thats a whole different story all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatme Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 okay im sort of clueless about some things. First whats a 255lph pump and where would you get that. then what does Dry you will have to increause fuel pressure and it would be nice to increase injector duty cycle but isnt able to be done like it should yet. I would go for a Wet system and tap off ur rail for fuel or one of the lines mean and how do you do that. Also what do you mean by a step colder in spark plugs. Also do you think that stock transmission on a t5r would be able to take very much power. O yah, its an automatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatme Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 o yah and what is ems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHEIII874T5M Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 ok... 255 lph is a Walbro Fuel pump, do a search for a Walbro 255 lph it's a drop in replacement with nitrous you have two types of kits:1. "dry" kit - the nozzle that goes into your car only injects nitrous, no fuel2. "wet" kit - the nozzle that goes into your car injects both nitrous and the accordingly appropriate amount of fuel.When you use a dry shot of nitrous, you would need to add fuel in order to compensate for the nitrous, thus the fuel pressure must rise to throw more fuel in there.A step colder in plugs... there are "Heat ranges" for spark plugs, nitrous and higher boost applications usually require to go to "one step colder" meaning a degree colder on the spark plug, that way it will run a bit more efficiently. It also withstands temperature changes better.EMS is engine management system (as I understand it), basically whatever controls your car's fuel/ignition/timing, etc.The stock tranny on a T5R will take the added power, just flush the fluid and run a tranny cooler, there are a few cars over 300 wheel horsepower (about 345 motor hp) with the autos and well over 340 wheel torque (about 385 motor torque) still working just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatme Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 you think that chipping the car is bad if you have nitrous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHEIII874T5M Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 I feel so long as your ignition is able to slightly retard timing when you spray you can have the car chipped.For my next setup I am going to use a custom programmed Upsolute ECU on a larger turbo and use a 35 wet shot of nitrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Our cars have pretty elastic ignition maps... Running a slightly too-high shot of nitrous is the same thing as running too-high boost, and to a certain extrent, the knock sensor and retard system will retard your timing as necessary to keep it safe.Obviously it can only retard ignition timing so far, but it does give a rather large margin of error compared to most cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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