mbsl98 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I found it very intersting that our '09 XC70 owner's manual specifically says that there is no recommended tire rotation, and goes on to explain that their current view is that letting a tire "set" in one wheel position over its life gives the best performance and traction, least noise, etc. To reinforce this trend, I saw in today's Wall Street Journal a reference to BMW saying exactly the same thing in their current manual. Volvo is clear that the front's will wear faster, and interestingly enough, they address the fact that the tread depth will become significantly different from front to back as a positive, because the added depth at back "will reduce oversteer" (as if the XC had any to begin with). I find nothing of any sort about the old recommendation of having the deeper tread on front wheels of all AWD cars, nor any reference to anything at all about matching tread depth's on AWD systems (or any acceptible tread differences). Obviously, this new thinking would not apply to the pre-Haldex Volvo's, where the life of the components is so tightly tied to tread matching. Querry if it does apply to the later P2's with Haldex, since the latest cars are using what I understand is the same system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Most BMWs you cannot rotate the tires so..... As for Volvo I'd ignore that. Sounds like a JD power ploy like their no maintenance transmissions or 10k mile oil change. Even the haldex AWD cars I rotate them. The old 1st Gens were sensitive about wheel size but the new ones allow up to 5% rotational speed difference. 5% is A LOT, almost a whole tire size. Even replacing just 2 tires has become common at a lot of shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbsl98 Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I would have thought of it as a ploy as well, except that both Volvo and BMW go on to explain their position, unlike just saying that transmission fluid doesn't need changing "for the service life of the fluid", which is carefully not mentioned anywhere in the book. As for BMW's, I'm not aware of any that have tires that can't be rotated, except those with different sized tires front and back. I know that this is becomming more common, but not yet across the board by a long shot, so I think BMW is really sending the same message as Volvo, ie: give up some extended tire life for technically better tire performance, with any effect on the AWD system conveniently ignored until it starts to become an issue (like the amended owners manuals for the '98 XC70, where they actually came out with a new page to add the cautions about matching tread depth). I'm not about to stop rotating, but I thought I'd bring the topic up since Volvo does seem to be changing their view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I would have thought of it as a ploy as well, except that both Volvo and BMW go on to explain their position, unlike just saying that transmission fluid doesn't need changing "for the service life of the fluid", which is carefully not mentioned anywhere in the book. As for BMW's, I'm not aware of any that have tires that can't be rotated, except those with different sized tires front and back. I know that this is becomming more common, but not yet across the board by a long shot, so I think BMW is really sending the same message as Volvo, ie: give up some extended tire life for technically better tire performance, with any effect on the AWD system conveniently ignored until it starts to become an issue (like the amended owners manuals for the '98 XC70, where they actually came out with a new page to add the cautions about matching tread depth). I'm not about to stop rotating, but I thought I'd bring the topic up since Volvo does seem to be changing their view. If you were really that worried you could have your tires shaved on rotation. Not to diameter match, but to square them back off. That would negate any "concerns" Volvo has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 150k Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 The ATF tranny fluid from the factory is designed for 150,000 miles and that is the industry's definition of Life Time. Of course you can change it earlier, if it "looks dirty", but you're just wasting money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confused_al Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 The ATF tranny fluid from the factory is designed for 150,000 miles and that is the industry's definition of Life Time. Of course you can change it earlier, if it "looks dirty", but you're just wasting money. Oh sure, if you are owning a Medcedes and using the Mercedes board (www.benzworld.org) as long as I am you will see how many of those "seal for life" benz trannys have to be replaced/rebuilt. Now Mercedes officially reversed its position to "change fluid every 65k or as needed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlc Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 The ATF tranny fluid from the factory is designed for 150,000 miles and that is the industry's definition of Life Time. Of course you can change it earlier, if it "looks dirty", but you're just wasting money. It's said or implied in the manual, I remember reading it. Volvo has since quietly reversed their position on this. This is one of the things I appreciate about having our car (V70) serviced at dealership for the first 40k or so - they flushed the ATF at 40k, which prompted me to do it at 80k, and last time at 120k (it now has full Mobil1 ATF, actually since 80k). The car now has 143+k and has no issues whatsoever with the tranny. Sounds like a wise investment to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatespeedbumps Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Lots of car companies are not defining service intervals anymore because on things like transmissions if you flushed the fluid per factory interval while the car was in warranty and the transmission failed right out of warranty you be able to make the case that you followed the service schedule and the component failed so you feel as though it would be VCNA responsibility to pay for the transmission. You did what you were supposed to do right? Volvo doesn't want to pay, so if they take the position of "no service interval" or "lifetime fluid" then they aren't obligated to I'm sure this tire debacle came up after many upset Volvo owners (with Pirelli tires) had to replace their tires very early on even though they had rotated their tires properly. On top of that most of them are very expensive to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilled man Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 The ATF tranny fluid from the factory is designed for 150,000 miles and that is the industry's definition of Life Time. Of course you can change it earlier, if it "looks dirty", but you're just wasting money. your retarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikus Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 ^ "You're" retarded just shy of 200K on original tranny fluid here, shifts great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crito Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 ^ "You're" retarded just shy of 200K on original tranny fluid here, shifts great The correct answer is depends on the tranny (Aisin-Warner or GM like in my S80) and depends on the driver (grandma going to church or teen drag racer). But youse guys are all still frickin' morons. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbodor3 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Hydraulic fluid in your car jack has to be replaced every blue moon, all transmissions are the same way. You have to change the fluid as it degrades, the interval can be dependent on a ton of things (driver, environment, transmission, fluid type, if all the moons on Jupiter line up) but the fact that transmission fluid has to be changed is undeniable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geokilla Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Most BMWs you cannot rotate the tires so..... As for Volvo I'd ignore that. Sounds like a JD power ploy like their no maintenance transmissions or 10k mile oil change. Even the haldex AWD cars I rotate them. The old 1st Gens were sensitive about wheel size but the new ones allow up to 5% rotational speed difference. 5% is A LOT, almost a whole tire size. Even replacing just 2 tires has become common at a lot of shops. What do you mean most BMWs, the tires cannot be rotated? We used to rotate them everytime we change from all-season tires to winter tires, putting the ones with the most tread on the drive wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatespeedbumps Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 What do you mean most BMWs, the tires cannot be rotated? We used to rotate them everytime we change from all-season tires to winter tires, putting the ones with the most tread on the drive wheels. They can't be rotated because BMW uses staggered wheels on many models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 They can't be rotated because BMW uses staggered wheels on many models. LOL yeah. I do not think the 285s will fit on the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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