95 854 t-5 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 hate to see a pioneer have to put up with this... lets hope their customer service is worth while and u have a fresh set of working cams soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Sounds like some sleeve retainer, a roll pin, and about 15 minutes of work and you'd be back in business. I would avoid welding it. Still, what a pita though man, that sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Sounds like some sleeve retainer, a roll pin, and about 15 minutes of work and you'd be back in business. I would avoid welding it. Still, what a pita though man, that sucks! Since it's ahead of the seal area, I don't see how a sleeve could be utilized? It's the last 1/2" tapered end that appears pressed over a central collar around the recessed thread. They replied & said that ned cap is just loctited to the cam. IF they had included a instruction or note to that effect, I would never have tried to use the Volvo locking tool in the first place. Hopefully they will be sending me a fresh pair, as both are shifted from their precise location. When I had contacted them, it was just the intake cam I thought was off, but both had shifted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 But then how can you trust it to not break free when pushing the engine hard? Seems like a really poor design, there should be an actual mechanical connection, be it a good interference press-fit, pins, welds, or just make the whole thing out of one piece of metal... :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo5.0 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Loctite??? Sure doesn't sound very reliable Hope they can get a replacement set to you pretty quick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 You use the sleeve retainer on the surfaces of the existing press fit and then drill a blind hole through the collar and into the cam and install the roll pin. The slot isn't really subject to any load in normal operation. In what sense would this be unreliable? I know the temptation is to demand justice out of principle, but sometimes you need to just be resourceful, use your head, and git'r'done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 You use the sleeve retainer on the surfaces of the existing press fit and then drill a blind hole through the collar and into the cam and install the roll pin. The slot isn't really subject to any load in normal operation. In what sense would this be unreliable? I know the temptation is to demand justice out of principle, but sometimes you need to just be resourceful, use your head, and git'r'done. The inner sleeve that the outer end cap is pressed onto is very thin walled, from appearances. I didn't want to remove the cap in case I couldn't get it back on. I can't see any way to pin the current cap as you describe. As you say, there is no load on that end cap under normal use, so once the cam timing is set, it matters not in terms of any load, as long as it is in the correct reference position for the cam sensor & dist rotor. I'm confident I got them back very close to the original position, but no way to be exact about it. The cam gears are slotted, so I have latitude for adjustment once I get it running tomorrow. Enem is going to send me a pair of replacement cams. Even if I was to pin them, I'd have to remove them again to do so, so I'll just wait for the replacements. Now that I am aware of the design, I will not use the Volvo locking tool. EDIT: How is your custom breather setup working? Any updates? Have you pushed it hard to confirm drain back/breather functionality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo5.0 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 The slot isn't really subject to any load in normal operation. In what sense would this be unreliable? Not saying that Loctite is unreliable, I use it all the time. It's very reliable on a mechanical fastener. Maybe I can't picture how these 2 parts of the camshaft are put together, but I would NEVER use Loctite alone to join 2 parts. Obviously when you attach the cam sensor piece and dist piece (but you're using COP, right?), then there will be a bolt holding it all together. Just think it would have been nice to know, since the accepted way to tighten the vvt hubs is to lock the cams from the rear. Hussein figured out a way to tighten the bolts using an old belt to lock the cams from turning, but at that point the damage was already done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Not saying that Loctite is unreliable, I use it all the time. It's very reliable on a mechanical fastener. Maybe I can't picture how these 2 parts of the camshaft are put together, but I would NEVER use Loctite alone to join 2 parts. Obviously when you attach the cam sensor piece and dist piece (but you're using COP, right?), then there will be a bolt holding it all together. Just think it would have been nice to know, since the accepted way to tighten the vvt hubs is to lock the cams from the rear. Hussein figured out a way to tighten the bolts using an old belt to lock the cams from turning, but at that point the damage was already done. I will be using COP - but it's not arrived yet - had to spend another $40 for a new Bosch cap & rotor in the mean time, as it certainly looked like I had some serious spark tracking to the rotor plate... I thought I had taken a pic of the cam end before I put them back in for the 3rd time - but I can't find it. Hard to tell exactly how the end is constructed; it certainly cannot be turned by hand - I had to lock the slot with the Volvo tool & use that as a lever to rotate it, so even with the loctite no longer adding a level of immobility, I sincerely doubt the end cap is going anywhere of it's own accord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Put it all back together today - warmed it up & drove it around the block. Car died. Rolled to the curb, pulled the timing cover & bumped the motor over to check the timing marks - all looked good EXCEPT the intake gear spun in the hub - two of the three bolt threads are stripped, and I only snugged them , since they are M6 Definitely no compression, so I assumed all 10 intake valves are bent. Pulled the head this evening & indeed, they all kissed the pistons. Hopefully the valve seats are not fucked. Pics to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Lame. This was stock cams with arrons solid cvvt hubs? The 3 bolts that hold the gear to hub are what you are talking about, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Lame. This was stock cams with arrons solid cvvt hubs? The 3 bolts that hold the gear to hub are what you are talking about, correct? Enem Cams Bent valves #1 #3 2,4,5 are the same Once I get the bolts out & helicoil the hub, I may tack a nut on the back to increase thread depth. The exhaust hub threads seem fine, but I think I'll do them all while I'm at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maciekb2002 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) holy shiiiiiiiiiiitttttt. what a crappy design That is a bad luck. But no worries those pistons will work for another 150k Edited April 22, 2011 by maciekb2002 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdlimy Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Wtf how does a steel hub like that strip, is it pretty thin? So the enem cams worked ok tho? the problem area didn't give any issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Ah, I see what you were saying before. The threads that hold the cam gear slots stripped, releasing tension, and then the cams went to the most retarded position in the slot, but didn't actually spin freely? I don't see how the intake cam being at full retard would cause interference though. It'll open late and close late, in both cases, the piston isn't near TDC. So the cam gear was actually spinning freely? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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