bum2kev Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 +1 on valve seals... ive had 3 different turbos in my DD and it did not change the fact that i got mad smoke after idling for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilhuly Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 If one has the smoke on start up I would be more suspicious of valve seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bum2kev Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 If one has the smoke on start up I would be more suspicious of valve seals. i have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatespeedbumps Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 A classic debate... So much confidence from the valve seal guys, but alas they are wrong. It is the turbo. Think of it this way, if its not the turbo, you rebuilt your turbo for 350-500 max. If you are going after the valve seals, you should probably freshen the whole head and replace all those other seals. That's more money, more time, more involvement. And the car may still smoke. Look up "smoke after extended idle" on a search engine and see what you come up with. Turbos, and more turbos. My theory it has to do with running at vacuum for an extended periods. No. These water cooled turbos fail VERY rarely in stock form. Even abusing the turbo, they still stand up pretty well. I can count on one hand how many "bad" turbos that I had to replace on white motors. I do not have enough fingers and toes to count the number of engines that I had to replace leaky valve seals. The truth of the matter is all these engines had valve stem seals that were made from that crappy "red" rubber. The same stuff the used to make the oil pan o-rings and the turbo return o-ring, and we all know how long those o-rings lasted. A faulty turbo is not out of the question, but as stated above, not the first place to go either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
850maybe Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Was going to suggest an oil leak somewhere until you mentioned ' puff at start up '. Mine does the same thing but not out the pipe. Pushing oil out somewhere and it's getting heated up on the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapwagon Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 My car does the same thing so once you guys figure this out let me know. I was always leaning toward the valve stem seals since I am at 214k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raven_850 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 My car was doing the same thing but I know it was not the turbo...it's NA. Valve stems may be the problem, I've noticed a big reduction in idle smoking since the PCV sys was replaced. The valve seals are still shot but not as much smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt b Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Interesting debate. Indy shop I used in FL would let turbo cars idle for 15 minutes to test for signs of a dying turbo. And the sign was what you described. A turbo swap is quick and easy, I'd try that (assuming you're running the original one) before pulling the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyhyde Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Pull off the intake hose and see how much oil is in the charge lines and/or intake manifold. I think it sounds like PCV inefficiency forcing liquid oil into the lines instead of vapor, then burning it off. Do the usual trick of pulling the oil dipstick and seeing if there is any positive pressure. Should have suction. If the intake manifold and/or charge pipes are free of oil, then consider valve stem seals. I think the odds are much higher of PCV issues....or turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 850r&nlove Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I've been trying to pinpiont this same problem for 2yrs now. No puff on startup but if it sat at idle for like 5+mins it would give the big blue puff bad(would have to burn it out with a couple of good revs. Changed just the pvc box out (recommended by my indy to just change the box and chean the rest- said he does them all like that) and most of the problem seemed to go away until recently . So, back to brainstorming then next list of repairs.....ahhhhh!!! Bairly noticable anymore though if thats helps. Think I'll go in for another comp test and get a leakdown at the same time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misa Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 My car was doing the same thing but I know it was not the turbo...it's NA. Valve stems may be the problem, I've noticed a big reduction in idle smoking since the PCV sys was replaced. The valve seals are still shot but not as much smoke. I had the same problem too,but since i cleaned flame trap(in detail),replaced o-ring gasket at flame trap housing,oil filler cap gasket and oil dipstick gasket...no more blue smoke after extended idling for about a year and highly reduced oil consumption. Before i cleaned and replaced all of this,oil consumption with 10w-40 oil was about 1 liter per 1000-1500km. Now...with the same oil viscosity(10w-40)it's a 1-1.5 liter at 8000km(almost normal)for engine with 240k km. I still have some positive pressure when i pull out oil dipstick,but it's hardly noticable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raven_850 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I had the same problem too,but since i cleaned flame trap(in detail),replaced o-ring gasket at flame trap housing,oil filler cap gasket and oil dipstick gasket...no more blue smoke after extended idling for about a year and highly reduced oil consumption. Before i cleaned and replaced all of this,oil consumption with 10w-40 oil was about 1 liter per 1000-1500km. Now...with the same oil viscosity(10w-40)it's a 1-1.5 liter at 8000km(almost normal)for engine with 240k km. I still have some positive pressure when i pull out oil dipstick,but it's hardly noticable. Ditto here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts 850 GLT Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 **UPDATE** Firstly, I apologise for not writing sooner my pc would'nt let me view anything on VS!! Took the car to 2 shops both said either the valve stem seals or the turbo seals. Fixing either would reveal which the problem is. I don't want to mess with the head yet so I am looking at getting a s/hand turbo. BTW the plugs are clean! The history file on my car says the turbo was replaced with a reconditioned one at 130k miles. This recon turbo now has over 50k miles as my mileage is 182k miles. Question 1: Could a reconditioned turbo be worn out at 50K miles? Question 2: There is oil present in the charge hoses but how much is too much? Question 3: How can I be sure the turbo is worn - what are the signs? Thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreo931 Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Question 1: Could a reconditioned turbo be worn out at 50K miles? If it was not rebuilt properly, then it is possible. If the job was done right, then typically no. Stock turbos do not generally wear out that quickly. Question 2: There is oil present in the charge hoses but how much is too much? It's hard to say without seeing actual pictures. Some oil is normal. If there is a LOT, then that's not normal. Question 3: How can I be sure the turbo is worn - what are the signs? Pull off the fresh air hose (black accordion hose going to turbo) and check the wheel for shaft play (movement side to side, or up and down). Shaft play=bad. That being said, if the turbo was rebuilt properly, I bet it's your valve seals. That was my original guess and I'm sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sally.N Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 i just can say that this is totally new for me, so thanks... regards, sally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.