Sharkey Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 '97 Volvo 850R with 176K on it. I've had oil burning from my exhaust for a while now off idle from extended idling. Burned off fairly quickly. Now there is significant leakage from where the exhaust manifold meets the head and doesn't appear to be head gasket related (very odd). Cam cover isn't leaking either. Now there is oil burning on startup after sitting overnight. PCV system has been serviced, no oil/coolant mixing, and no visible leaks from cam seals. So valve stems seals right? How much will the leak down show? I have significant money in the car including a recent transmission replacement. Not going to part with the car sooooooo ... replace motor with lower mileage used longblock to eliminate other potential issues? Seems cheaper than a valve stem seal job. Or rebuild the head and reinstall with new head gasket set and call it good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatespeedbumps Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Valve stem seals cause the engine to leak internally. For an external leak look at all the usual suspects. Is there a significant amount of oil under the spark plug cover? Double check those rear cam seals, if possible take a few things off so you can get a good look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsterns Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 '97 Volvo 850R with 176K on it. I've had oil burning from my exhaust for a while now off idle from extended idling. Burned off fairly quickly. Now there is significant leakage from where the exhaust manifold meets the head and doesn't appear to be head gasket related (very odd). Cam cover isn't leaking either. Now there is oil burning on startup after sitting overnight. PCV system has been serviced, no oil/coolant mixing, and no visible leaks from cam seals. So valve stems seals right? How much will the leak down show? I have significant money in the car including a recent transmission replacement. Not going to part with the car sooooooo ... replace motor with lower mileage used longblock to eliminate other potential issues? Seems cheaper than a valve stem seal job. Or rebuild the head and reinstall with new head gasket set and call it good? I feel your pain...A leak down test isn't going to tell you the entire story. I'd run a dry & wet compression test first. You want consistent readings from cly to cly. If the compression numbers on the wet test run close to dry, then you can rule out rings (if the numbers are higher, indicates rings and this is were data from a leak down test will help). Also I've found that most leak down testers require an input of 100psi. If you don't have a compressor that can furnish it, you will get meaningless readings. post what you find... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojojo Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Excessive exhaust smoke after prolonged idling points to piston rings. While your piston rings may be worn, they will in no way allow oil to leak externally... You need to keep looking. Try cleaning the area(s) well and checking after driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatespeedbumps Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Excessive exhaust smoke after prolonged idling points to piston rings. Absolutely not. Worn rings typically cause smoke at all times. Smoke from the tailpipe after sitting for long periods is from leaky valve stem seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRACStar Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I had the same issue, once warmed up extended idle time it would start to smoke. It seemed like valve stem seals but it ended up being the seal on the turbo. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I had the same issue, once warmed up extended idle time it would start to smoke. It seemed like valve stem seals but it ended up being the seal on the turbo. My .02 That sounds like a possible culprit, I'll pull off the J-Pipe and check for shaft play. The oil leak at the manifold puzzles me though. Maybe a die test is in order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Sooooooo, I removed the J-pipe off the turbo today and saw this oil residue along with shaft play at the turbo inlet ... Then removed the upper intercooler piping and saw this fresh oil residue ... Am I correct to assume that my oil burning issue at the exhaust is more than likely due to a worn out turbo? Time to rebuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilhuly Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 That doesn't strike me as a lot of oil. I would not assume that is your problem, but this is not an area of strong experience for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
550 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Well when I ruined my turbo I was blowing so much smoke under boost and at idle I could see peoples reactions to the smell in their cars. And I poured a decent amount out of the turbo afterwards. Like people have been saying do a compression test, at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whoa Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Well when I ruined my turbo I was blowing so much smoke under boost and at idle I could see peoples reactions to the smell in their cars. And I poured a decent amount out of the turbo afterwards. Like people have been saying do a compression test, at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whoa Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Ooops. Sorry for that empty post. I have very similar symptoms on my 1996 850 Turbo. Smoky, smelly exhaust at idle in some circumstances, oil loss, oil at back of engine apparently near where head meets exaust manifold (and apparently NOT from the turbo oil return line where it enters the block), and high hydrocarbons in a smog test (especially when tested at 15mph--borderline "pass"; still high, but less so, at 25mph). I've very recently replaced the PCV system (in the last 400 miles; also cleaned out the PTC thing), vacuum hoses, 02 sensor. I haven't been able to assess whether the PCV/PTC work affected the oil leaking/loss yet; the PTC was indeed clogged (the vacuum port), but the other PCV stuff looked ok. I did a compression test, and got readings from 172 to 178 dry, with an increase of only about 3 wet. I should say that I was unable to screw the tester very tightly into the plug holes (is there a tool for this?), and I did hear "pffffft"s while cranking; dunno if that reduced the measured compression, though. Anyway my understanding is that that's fine compression for this engine, so no problem with the rings. Other data that might or might not be relevant: I'm getting reasonably good mileage: averaging 22mpg or so with mixed city/highway driving. The car runs well--smooth and powerful, so the turbo seems to be working. No OBD codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsterns Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Ooops. Sorry for that empty post. I have very similar symptoms on my 1996 850 Turbo. Smoky, smelly exhaust at idle in some circumstances, oil loss, oil at back of engine apparently near where head meets exaust manifold (and apparently NOT from the turbo oil return line where it enters the block), and high hydrocarbons in a smog test (especially when tested at 15mph--borderline "pass"; still high, but less so, at 25mph). I've very recently replaced the PCV system (in the last 400 miles; also cleaned out the PTC thing), vacuum hoses, 02 sensor. I haven't been able to assess whether the PCV/PTC work affected the oil leaking/loss yet; the PTC was indeed clogged (the vacuum port), but the other PCV stuff looked ok. I did a compression test, and got readings from 172 to 178 dry, with an increase of only about 3 wet. I should say that I was unable to screw the tester very tightly into the plug holes (is there a tool for this?), and I did hear "pffffft"s while cranking; dunno if that reduced the measured compression, though. Anyway my understanding is that that's fine compression for this engine, so no problem with the rings. Other data that might or might not be relevant: I'm getting reasonably good mileage: averaging 22mpg or so with mixed city/highway driving. The car runs well--smooth and powerful, so the turbo seems to be working. No OBD codes. Good that you cleaned up the PCV, as far as leaks, they can be a byproduct of your previously neglected PCV. When clogged, equals excess pressure, which starts to take its toll on seals. My guess is you have rear cam seals leaking, if your getting any smoking on deceleration going down hill (high vacuum state), then possibly valve stem seals, which would explain the rest of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey Posted February 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Good that you cleaned up the PCV, as far as leaks, they can be a byproduct of your previously neglected PCV. When clogged, equals excess pressure, which starts to take its toll on seals. My guess is you have rear cam seals leaking, if your getting any smoking on deceleration going down hill (high vacuum state), then possibly valve stem seals, which would explain the rest of it. But there is shaft play in the turbo, up and down AND back and forth. Any play is a sign of a worn out turbo correct? I had the vacuum checked at the dipstick tube after my PCV system was "serviced" suspecting it hadn't been done correctly when the off idle smoke still persisted and was told it was well within factory spec, so they felt the PCV system had been serviced correctly. I had done a compression test a few months ago also and gotten a consistent 150-155psi across all cylinders at WOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 '97 Volvo 850R with 176K on it. I've had oil burning from my exhaust for a while now off idle from extended idling. Burned off fairly quickly. Now there is significant leakage from where the exhaust manifold meets the head and doesn't appear to be head gasket related (very odd). Cam cover isn't leaking either. Now there is oil burning on startup after sitting overnight. PCV system has been serviced, no oil/coolant mixing, and no visible leaks from cam seals. So valve stems seals right? How much will the leak down show? I have significant money in the car including a recent transmission replacement. Not going to part with the car sooooooo ... replace motor with lower mileage used longblock to eliminate other potential issues? Seems cheaper than a valve stem seal job. Or rebuild the head and reinstall with new head gasket set and call it good? Exhaust Valve Seals. I can guarantee it, ask me how I know. Just get a valve job if you have the downtime, or a reman head if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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