Engine Swap Woes

[Cal3thousand]

ORIGINAL POST: Just got done swapping a motor (96 T5 from LKQ with 140k) and go to crank it. Solenoid clicks and the engine just sits there and strains. Battery is measuring a full 12.0v at rest and 11.9v when trying to crank. Everything is hooked up right and the lights do their necessary dance.

Took a 30mm to the crank nut, no budge

So I get a can of Seafoam Deep Creep and spray a shot in each cylinder. #1 to #4 drain as expected. #5 has a pool of it sitting in there. It has sat since 9PM PDST... still a pool at the bottom

Car is sitting at home and I'm at the office.

What do I do?

UPDATED: Looks like I'll be doing this swap for the 3 time... FML: Skip ahead if you wish: http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.php/topic/139046-engine-swap-woes/page__st__80

[renns]

Just got done swapping a motor (96 T5 from LKQ with 140k) and go to crank it. Solenoid clicks and the engine just sits there and strains. Battery is measuring a full 12.0v at rest and 11.9v when trying to crank. Everything is hooked up right and the lights do their necessary dance.

Took a 30mm to the crank nut, no budge

So I get a can of Seafoam Deep Creep and spray a shot in each cylinder. #1 to #4 drain as expected. #5 has a pool of it sitting in there. It has sat since 9PM PDST... still a pool at the bottom

Car is sitting at home and I'm at the office.

What do I do?

Ouch... Nobody checked to ensure the engine turned over prior to purchase or installation?

If it did turn over prior, then check the crankcase to bellhousing bolts. It's possible one or more of the wrong length were used, and are jamming the flywheel/ring gear, preventing rotation. I'm not certain, but I think the possibility exists with these engines. It's a long shot, but worth a check prior to pulling the engine all the way out. Maybe someone else with a better memory can verify or discount the bellhousing bolt issue.

[Cal3thousand]

Ouch... Nobody checked to ensure the engine turned over prior to purchase or installation?

If it did turn over prior, then check the crankcase to bellhousing bolts. It's possible one or more of the wrong length were used, and are jamming the flywheel/ring gear, preventing rotation. I'm not certain, but I think the possibility exists with these engines. It's a long shot, but worth a check prior to pulling the engine all the way out. Maybe someone else with a better memory can verify or discount the bellhousing bolt issue.

Oh SNAP! great call.

Now I remember that it DID crank by hand... it had to since we put the torque converter on...

Soo.... do i have to pull it to check these bolts you think?

EDIT: I'm thinking about this and I just can't see how that would happen??? I'm thinking about removing the starter and cranking by hand again tonight... (that's the plan unless I get more advice)

[Reximus]

Oh SNAP! great call.

Now I remember that it DID crank by hand... it had to since we put the torque converter on...

Soo.... do i have to pull it to check these bolts you think?

EDIT: I'm thinking about this and I just can't see how that would happen??? I'm thinking about removing the starter and cranking by hand again tonight... (that's the plan unless I get more advice)

it actually sounds like your starter isn't drawing enough power to even crank the motor. usually if you have a full 12.0v battery, when the starter work to crank, it will draw the voltage down at least 1 or 1.5 volts... try removing the starter and crank the engine by hand first of all... if that worked out, try bench testing the starter if you know how. it's basically clamp the ground to the starter bolt flange, clamp the power to the positive post, and take a jumper wire at least 10gauge and jump the positive post and the small lead on the starter solenoid... a working starter will have the gear pop out and start to turn at high speed. good luck!! :D

[Cal3thousand]

it actually sounds like your starter isn't drawing enough power to even crank the motor. usually if you have a full 12.0v battery, when the starter work to crank, it will draw the voltage down at least 1 or 1.5 volts... try removing the starter and crank the engine by hand first of all... if that worked out, try bench testing the starter if you know how. it's basically clamp the ground to the starter bolt flange, clamp the power to the positive post, and take a jumper wire at least 10gauge and jump the positive post and the small lead on the starter solenoid... a working starter will have the gear pop out and start to turn at high speed. good luck!!

Thanks.

I will test it when it is out. Thing is... I've had occasions where the battery would be low and struggle to crank but would still eek out a turn or two with the lights dimming. Here, the lights are on strong but it just feels stuck. Maybe I jammed the starter somehow.

[Reximus]

Thanks.

I will test it when it is out. Thing is... I've had occasions where the battery would be low and struggle to crank but would still eek out a turn or two with the lights dimming. Here, the lights are on strong but it just feels stuck. Maybe I jammed the starter somehow.

if your dash light don't dim much at all, the starter isn't working. check it out, keep us posted ;)

[Black Betty]

Sounds dumb but make sure the main grounds are good and all connections at the starter and battery are tight. If you can measure how much power the starter is pulling. The solenoid shouldn't pull much but IIRC the starter is rated at 1.4kw

Also check timing even if you haven't messed with it doesn't mean someone else hasn't.

[Keaton85]

I got a better idea, charge or replace your battery!

if you are reading 12.0V then you have a DEAD battery. You have about 40% charge which in my opinion wont give you much cranking power if any!

about 12.6V is what you are looking for in a good full charged battery.

Also if you have left the battery sit for a while dead like this then you will start getting sulfation on the battery plates which decreases capacity and puts extra strain on the battery during charging. If let go for to long then you will destroy the battery via to much sulfation or shorted cells. Although with a proper application of a desulfator you can restore the battery to almost full capacity.

[Chilled man]

tourque converter into the tranny then tranny onto motor or tourque converter onto motor then tranny to motor ?

if you did the first one its wrong . and the reason why it wont turn

[Cal3thousand]

tourque converter into the tranny then tranny onto motor or tourque converter onto motor then tranny to motor ?

if you did the first one its wrong . and the reason why it wont turn

wait... i did torque converter onto the flywheel first then strapped the bell housing onto the motor. (the same way it came off)... so I'm ok there./

[Keaton85]

wait... i did torque converter onto the flywheel first then strapped the bell housing onto the motor. (the same way it came off)... so I'm ok there./

FAIL!

The TC should come off with the tranny and then go back on with the tranny. NEVER install the TC onto the flex plate then install the tranny, or you can say bye bye to the tranny... bye bye

revised: unless you are really lucky and line it up perfectly!

[Cal3thousand]

I got a better idea, charge or replace your battery!

if you are reading 12.0V then you have a DEAD battery. You have about 40% charge which in my opinion wont give you much cranking power if any!

about 12.6V is what you are looking for in a good full charged battery.

Also if you have left the battery sit for a while dead like this then you will start getting sulfation on the battery plates which decreases capacity and puts extra strain on the battery during charging. If let go for to long then you will destroy the battery via to much sulfation or shorted cells. Although with a proper application of a desulfator you can restore the battery to almost full capacity.

I know its not very good logic... but my car has cranked with a "deader" battery. I know what a dead battery crank feels like. When that happens, the lights dim and the engine still musters half a turn. Here, the battery seems FRESH and it still won't crank... Like if I took something and just jammed the crankshaft.

BTW, the 12V reading is the stupid little voltmeter display on my Pioneer headunit.... so it reads a bit lower than normal. I'll bust out the DMM tonight. Another thing... the battery is an Odyssey that I had sitting on a charger for a full day prior. I'm pretty sure that either the engine is a dud OR I effed up somewhere.

I'll post back here tonight after I get home from work and do some testing.

FAIL!

The TC should come off with the tranny and then go back on with the tranny. NEVER install the TC onto the flex plate or you can say bye bye to the tranny... bye bye

huh?... isn't that the same way he described?

[Keaton85]

huh?... isn't that the same way he described?

"tourque converter into the tranny then tranny onto motor (GOOD) or tourque converter onto motor then tranny to motor (VERY BAD)"

TC into tranny propperly THEN bolt the tranny on with the TC install in the trannys bell housing. Once it's installed you can bolt the flex plate to the TC.

You did it the other way around, jamming the whole thing to stuff...

Edit: I reread that and Justin is just not reading what he wrote haha. As for the battery, it's still not in good shape at 12.0V but if that's not on a DVM then double check it..

[Cal3thousand]

tourque converter into the tranny then tranny onto motor or tourque converter onto motor then tranny to motor ?

if you did the first one its wrong . and the reason why it wont turn

FAIL!

The TC should come off with the tranny and then go back on with the tranny. NEVER install the TC onto the flex plate then install the tranny, or you can say bye bye to the tranny... bye bye

revised: unless you are really lucky and line it up perfectly!

OK... I know both of you know your sh*t... but I'm getting confused

Justin says: "...if you did the first one its wrong."

But Binglax09 says:

The TC should come off with the tranny and then go back on with the tranny. NEVER install the TC onto the flex plate then install the tranny, or you can say bye bye to the tranny... bye bye

So... did I kill my tranny?

Ok... so after reading what you wrote... I basically have to pull the motor again and reassemble with the TC in the tranny first, then button it back up.

Is there any special method to lining up the TC in the bell housing?

[Keaton85]

Justin just typed it up backwards, he's dyslexic sometimes

To install the TC into the tranny you look inside where the imput shaft is and find the alignment pins (can't think of the real name). Once you know where those two are then insert the TC in the same direction, you will likely miss the first time, second time, then a few choice words and it pops right in. Make sure it pops in because it seems like it is all the way in at time when it's really not. About 2 inches inset from the bell housing mating surface if I can picture it correctly.