FAST850R Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Hi, My car has cel codes for running too rich, and evap leak. Is it ok to drive like this? I have been driving like this for about 6 month....MPG is pretty bad because of the codes, but other than that, it runs fine. I tried to fix this problems, but no luck so far. I took my car to a shop, but a mechanics couldn't find what causes the problems.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keaton85 Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Post the codes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST850R Posted November 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 P0172, and P0440. System running rich and evap leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jablackburn Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Fix the leaks! Look at the J-hose on the EVAP canister first for the P0440, and the P0172 is a vacuum leak somewhere. You'll burn up your cat converter if it's running very rich. That gets expensive when you need to pass inspections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST850R Posted November 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Fix the leaks! Look at the J-hose on the EVAP canister first for the P0440, and the P0172 is a vacuum leak somewhere. You'll burn up your cat converter if it's running very rich. That gets expensive when you need to pass inspections. Yeah...I've been trying to fix them...for 6 month... A mechanic did smoke test and no leak was found....I still paid inspection fee because the mechanic spent so much time on finding problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jablackburn Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 If no smoke was seen from the entire EVAP system on back to the gas tank, have you tried a new gas cap? They stop sealing over time and can cause that too. As for the vacuum lines, you may just need to replace them all. That code commonly is caused by the rubber elbow behind the PS pump falling off, but leaks elsewhere can set it off too. Spray around vacuum lines, the intake manifold, and throttle body with a can of carb cleaner with the engine running and listen for a change in engine speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keaton85 Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 When you get a rich code then you are running lean. Vacuum leak causes a lean condition thus the ECU extends injector pulse to compensate. It can only do +/-20%. after that you gets rich code but you are running lean since it can't inject enough fuel. That's how I understand it, I could be wrong so let me know if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST850R Posted November 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 If no smoke was seen from the entire EVAP system on back to the gas tank, have you tried a new gas cap? They stop sealing over time and can cause that too. As for the vacuum lines, you may just need to replace them all. That code commonly is caused by the rubber elbow behind the PS pump falling off, but leaks elsewhere can set it off too. Spray around vacuum lines, the intake manifold, and throttle body with a can of carb cleaner with the engine running and listen for a change in engine speed. New gas cap....entire pcv system was replaced...basically stage 0 was completed. Sprayed entire a carb cleaner can on the engine bay to find leak, no luck ( 5 times). I checked the 90 degree elbow more than enough, and it's not the problem. I even droped the gas tank to find any leak, no luck. I checked hoses that go to evap canister, no luck. I took my car 2 different shops, and one shop spent 4 days on my car and couldn't find what was wrong with my car. My car is 146k miles with original o2 sensor. I think I should change it, but I am tired of spending money and not getting the result I want. Yeah, I found out that running rich for long time will affect the cat.....but what can I do? Ok, you suggested me to change hoses....where can I order hoses...and what hoses need to be replaced? I checked them all and no rip or torn...but they are old... When you get a rich code then you are running lean. Vacuum leak causes a lean condition thus the ECU extends injector pulse to compensate. It can only do +/-20%. after that you gets rich code but you are running lean since it can't inject enough fuel. That's how I understand it, I could be wrong so let me know if that's the case. So maybe injectors problem? How can I check injectors? I sprayed a carb cleaner there, but I couldn't find anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keaton85 Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Not injectors a leak most likey.Has your temp been normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST850R Posted November 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 When you get a rich code then you are running lean. Vacuum leak causes a lean condition thus the ECU extends injector pulse to compensate. It can only do +/-20%. after that you gets rich code but you are running lean since it can't inject enough fuel. That's how I understand it, I could be wrong so let me know if that's the case. What causes the lean condition? Can you suggese me anything so I can take a look? I luv my car, and I want to fix it, but I am just lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST850R Posted November 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Since you mentioned lean condition....I smell gas fume whenever I start the car. When windows are closed, I don't smell anyting, but when they are opened, I can smell gas fume from the engine bay. Fuel pressure regulator is going south? but I don't know what it has anything to do with those codes. I also think evap leak triggers P0172 code....but I am not a mechanic so I am not sure... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jablackburn Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 A leak around the injector seals usually causes the entire car to run like crap, as they tend to be quite large leaks. The P0172 might be the oxygen sensor, if you have ruled everything else out completely. If you're getting horrific gas mileage but your car seems to run ok otherwise, it makes it even more of a suspect. If you want to test the O2 sensor: Remove your rear one and connect it to the front port on the converter, and the front wiring clip for it. Put the front one in the hole for the rear, but don't connect it. Zip-tie the wire up so it won't drag the ground. Run around for a bit and see if the P0172 comes back - you will definitely have a code for the rear sensor, but it doesn't do anything but monitor the cat converter's efficiency. I'm not sure where to tell you to go on the EVAP system. I believe the canister on an 850's mounted up under the front bumper; I would unscrew the bracket and pull it down and have a close look at any of the tubes there. A bad purge valve usually won't give you a P0440 code, but the hoses to the valve or the one INTO the intake manifold itself could. There are several one-way valves in the system as well; perhaps one of those has failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST850R Posted November 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 A leak around the injector seals usually causes the entire car to run like crap, as they tend to be quite large leaks. The P0172 might be the oxygen sensor, if you have ruled everything else out completely. If you're getting horrific gas mileage but your car seems to run ok otherwise, it makes it even more of a suspect. If you want to test the O2 sensor: Remove your rear one and connect it to the front port on the converter, and the front wiring clip for it. Put the front one in the hole for the rear, but don't connect it. Zip-tie the wire up so it won't drag the ground. Run around for a bit and see if the P0172 comes back - you will definitely have a code for the rear sensor, but it doesn't do anything but monitor the cat converter's efficiency. I'm not sure where to tell you to go on the EVAP system. I believe the canister on an 850's mounted up under the front bumper; I would unscrew the bracket and pull it down and have a close look at any of the tubes there. A bad purge valve usually won't give you a P0440 code, but the hoses to the valve or the one INTO the intake manifold itself could. There are several one-way valves in the system as well; perhaps one of those has failed? Thank you for the advice and suggestion. I will test the o2 sensor....I really hope the o2 sensor is the problem, then it's an easy fix. About the canister....I didn't actually drop it, I just checked it visually from under the car. Since no smoke was coming out from that area, I didn't feel like unscrew the bracket. All the hoses have no hole or any sign of damage, but they are old... If I want to change them with silicon hoses, do you know where I can order? Length, diameter, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jablackburn Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Those EVAP hoses are 8mm, but I don't know what length you'll need for yours. We've got an S70 and a V70, but I've only had to deal with EVAP stuff on the V70 where the canister's at the back. I changed the hose from the canister up to the front of the car on that one, and just bought 10 ft of line and cut it where I needed it. Stylin motors has a kit for ALL hoses, but it's muy expensive. Some people had input here about where they got bits and pieces from: http://www.___.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwb Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I just went through the same deal on my 850 NA. P0440 and P0172 along with an unstable idle for 6 months now. Checked for vacuum leaks and couldnt find any. Then one day I was under the hood and could hear air rushing near the EVAP valve. Couldnt find any leak though. Then my guess was that the EVAP valve was stuck open. So I took a pair of pliers and crimped the vacuum hose shut (the one between the intake and evap valve) to test my theory. Bam, idle changed drastically and the air rushing sound went away. New evap valve fixed it. Its been a solid 2 weeks now and no codes and the idle is rock solid now. I also notice the old evap valve clicked very loudly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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