ajhehr Posted December 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2010 IMO for $1100 I'd expect a before-and-after dyno. It's not that hard to baseline a car, swap one of these on, and then do another pull... Without hard numbers, it can't be sold as much other than as a cosmetic upgrade... It's hard to justify $1100 without even knowing what effect it's going to have... Your absolutely correct, that the static flow numbers do not have as much to do as the dynamic (dyno) numbers. however velocity is king. In reference to your comment about it being easy to do a before and after? no it is not easy at all. in fact it is a rather large and expensive p.i.t.a. I have made about 40 intake manifolds in the last 2 years. about 25 were for the same car. on that car we did exactly what your are proposing. we went to the dyno, and tuned the STOCK car to guarantee the car had the highest possible starting point. then pulled off the manifold and installed out performance one. then tuned the car again. because (after the baseline tuning and without tuning for the intake) car showed only a 7whp gain. after tuning it was closer to 17... the total for both the flow bench time as well as the 7 hours of dyno time? well you can decide. The problem with a volvo manifold is that it is a volvo. I have made one of these, and only have orders for 3 more. and may never have any more orders... I simply dont have the resources and cant afford (in both time and money) to do the same due diligence in this limited market, nor do i have faith that any further market would be generated by doing such expansive and expensive testing... I am a small shop and have to use my resources carefully... With all of that said... you are all welcome to have one, or not. If you want to send me your car so that I can develop an intake manifold for you that extracts every last ounce of power, I can do that. but such a piece will not be 1100 dollars it will be closer to 3000... if someone wants me to develop a manifold for a car and buy 30+ units, I will be more then happy to develop it fully. your right to be skeptical. but I am not. I have experience and resources that let me make a piece that satisfies the majority of owners demands. What you get in this manifold is 95% of the possible potential available, at a fraction of what development of what a truly "custom" part would be. thanks for your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bondo Posted December 19, 2010 Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 Maybe someone who gets one can test it then - not sure why it took 7 hours to re-tune either, I can re-tune for something like an intake manifold change in about 4 pulls, at least for max power, but I don't mean to thread jack. In any event I know what you mean, for the volumes involved it's hard to justify. It'd just be nice to know where in the rev range the manifold shines and where is compromises so that the rest of a motor build can be matched to it. I bet it's pretty decent, and most efficient around 5000rpm, but it would be nice to know. I actually already have a sheetmetal intake on my motor (I make the odd manifold as well), but it has much shorter runners and 60mm bellmouths that make it useless for most of the folks here (aiming for 600whp or so this year, so not very applicable. Props for offering these regardless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted December 19, 2010 Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 yes retains dipstick. although I may go to the later dipstick to ease installation. No support but I can easily include one if you want one. as many vacuum ports as you need. 5? 10? 37585342? whatever TB flange you would like. Ports can be stock or gasket matched, or shaped like Kermit's head. *edit(sorry forgot)* on the rip kit, i dont think so, but I can make you one that will work... I would like to use the (new) dipstick I have - unless it won't fit, of course, then I'd go with the '00 design if that is easy to bracket... I would like a support point on the underside - perhaps one that could align with the stock bracket with an extension? I would like to not have to fabricate a new throttle bobbin bracket, can you include provision for retaining that? Or do you have a redesigned bracket for the cable/bobbin? Can you put an appropriately sized port for the stock IAC hoses to fit? I'd want the ports gasket matched. I need all the stock manifold vacuum ports, and 5 to compensate for those I use on the tree flange for the 3" volvo TB - I'm wondering about my Greddy though - I'm assuming I'm going to need to rework the the intake side plumbing - but I can't raise much higher than it currently sits... My rip pipe currently drops down exactly over the ECU vent hose outlet in the fan shroud with a coupling about half way down. Can we reconnect to that section? Will I still be able to keep the air filter in the same location? EDIT: I also have IPD's phenolic spacer - will that become a space concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajhehr Posted December 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 Maybe someone who gets one can test it then - not sure why it took 7 hours to re-tune either, I can re-tune for something like an intake manifold change in about 4 pulls, at least for max power, but I don't mean to thread jack. In any event I know what you mean, for the volumes involved it's hard to justify. It'd just be nice to know where in the rev range the manifold shines and where is compromises so that the rest of a motor build can be matched to it. I bet it's pretty decent, and most efficient around 5000rpm, but it would be nice to know. I actually already have a sheetmetal intake on my motor (I make the odd manifold as well), but it has much shorter runners and 60mm bellmouths that make it useless for most of the folks here (aiming for 600whp or so this year, so not very applicable. Props for offering these regardless! LOL yea 4 different manifold designs, 3 different throttle bodies, 4 different filters and intake tubes... so yea 7 hours of testing on the dyno (and about 2 days of prep)... learned allot and confirmed allot of our methodology... I would like to use the (new) dipstick I have - unless it won't fit, of course, then I'd go with the '00 design if that is easy to bracket... I would like a support point on the underside - perhaps one that could align with the stock bracket with an extension? I would like to not have to fabricate a new throttle bobbin bracket, can you include provision for retaining that? Or do you have a redesigned bracket for the cable/bobbin? Can you put an appropriately sized port for the stock IAC hoses to fit? I'd want the ports gasket matched. I need all the stock manifold vacuum ports, and 5 to compensate for those I use on the tree flange for the 3" volvo TB - I'm wondering about my Greddy though - I'm assuming I'm going to need to rework the the intake side plumbing - but I can't raise much higher than it currently sits... My rip pipe currently drops down exactly over the ECU vent hose outlet in the fan shroud with a coupling about half way down. Can we reconnect to that section? Will I still be able to keep the air filter in the same location? EDIT: I also have IPD's phenolic spacer - will that become a space concern? the spacer would be ok. the support should be ok as well. your plumbing will need some work... do you still have your washer bottle? if not I would suggest running a passenger side TB and using a stockish direction pipe from the turbo and coming up through the washer location to the TB...as far as the ports and IAC and all the other crap... I really dont know what Im going to do. but like always ill make it work. I believe that I will run the IAC on a bracket under the manifold. all ports and nipples will be accounted for on a need be basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted December 19, 2010 Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 LOL yea 4 different manifold designs, 3 different throttle bodies, 4 different filters and intake tubes... so yea 7 hours of testing on the dyno (and about 2 days of prep)... learned allot and confirmed allot of our methodology... the spacer would be ok. the support should be ok as well. your plumbing will need some work... do you still have your washer bottle? if not I would suggest running a passenger side TB and using a stockish direction pipe from the turbo and coming up through the washer location to the TB... as far as the ports and IAC and all the other crap... I really dont know what Im going to do. but like always ill make it work. I believe that I will run the IAC on a bracket under the manifold. all ports and nipples will be accounted for on a need be basis. My car is still a DD, so yes, it has the washer bottle - I use it for the WI, also. It sounds like this will require a substantial if not complete overhaul of all the intake plumbing. I don't want to run a PS TB - that then gets into custom throttle cables, rewiring the engine harness, etc, on top of all the other work. I'd like to see a mock-up on a 98 or older, to see what it looks like with a throttle housing & bobbin attached. I don't think I want to have to rework all that myself without some forethought on your end as to how it could be made to work. I don't expect it to be direct bolt-on, given in my case it's not going into a stock configuration, but I'd like to see the throttle/bobbin/IAC addressed before committing The PS pump is also much larger & may interfere, based on this pic compared to older style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajhehr Posted December 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 The powersteering isnt as much a problem as the upper radiator hose... Im pretty certain your intake wont fit. Honestly a throttle cable and extending some wires is pretty easy, but yea either way your will need a pretty large rework... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdizzle Posted December 19, 2010 Report Share Posted December 19, 2010 Props Aaron! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 The powersteering isnt as much a problem as the upper radiator hose... Im pretty certain your intake wont fit. Honestly a throttle cable and extending some wires is pretty easy, but yea either way your will need a pretty large rework... So.... can you post pics of one on a ME4.3/4 setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagoneer855 Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 So.... can you post pics of one on a ME4.3/4 setup? I think the one he's building for me is going to be the first ME4.3/4 setup with the longer runners. So I'm looking forward to pictures more than you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajhehr Posted December 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 na. Im looking forward to it more than anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 I think the one he's building for me is going to be the first ME4.3/4 setup with the longer runners. So I'm looking forward to pictures more than you Nice! I just can't commit to something like this if it means I'll have to re-fabricate EVERYTHING in my Inlet/IC plumbing! I'm also curious what the overall runner length is in our swirl type manifold, and specifically what the benefit of straight runners are over our design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRACStar Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 I'm also curious what the overall runner length is in our swirl type manifold, and specifically what the benefit of straight runners are over our design. Going by a rough estimate on a mani I have laying around, I'd say a little over a foot from the beginning of the runner in the plenum to the flange. Thats an estimate of runner #3, visually the others seem to be a bit shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Bump Just wondering how the -98 version is coming along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I think the one he's building for me is going to be the first ME4.3/4 setup with the longer runners. So I'm looking forward to pictures more than you He needs a local mock-up first, :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajhehr Posted March 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 ok at long last... short. long. they come with a support/dipstick retainer bracket, larger throttle body, welded t stat cover, proper ports and holes to retain all factory items associated with the intake (iac, vac tree ect). tps and IAC wires have to be extended. long runners come with a new SS throttle cable and a new coolant tube to run between the runners. dipstick is between runner 2 and 3. also long runners ONLY for fmic or water to air... lastly, no you cant have one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.