Understeer

[rbodor3]

225-45-17 sumitomo htr on all 4 corners, about 5k on the front and nearly bald on the back

35psi front, 38 psi rear

IPD front and rear sway bars

bilstein sport front shocks

koni sport rears

eibach lowering springs all around

as much negative camber as the car can run without plates or eccentric bolts.

I've heard of people getting minor oversteer before in these cars. Why is it that I understeer massively even when not laying down much power or speed in corners? The nose never points where my eyes are. :monkey: :monkey: :monkey:

[Q-Ship]

They understeer. You can make them oversteer by braking in corners, throttle lift, etc., but I haven't heard of any normal condition oversteer.

I would imagine a quaife would help? Sorry if I'm capt. obvious. A free bump.

(my understanding is the oversteer is a sudden, bad kind; snapping through corners, not oversteering daily driving. ..for some values of daily driving.)

[Gideon35T]

long time no see rbod - i have 235 wides in the fronts and they are hankook ventus evo 13 k110 yada yada yadas + springs + ect

atm i should have less power then you but i def weigh drastically less --- so u'd think that lowered + camber + wider tires + less weight to swing would = reasonable steering ... it sure doesnt in my case

ive basically given up powering the car through a turn - with a Look at me, I think I am witty no quaife options - tho i found revamping my throttle usage during corners optimized turning and putting power down

its just a way of life on our cars i think - ive riden in a few 850's with coilovers tho, its alot of $$$ but they do well

srry to get off topic but i was just curious if ur still runnin that F upEDsolute tune - ur power onset might be contributing to ur issue

[andyb5]

Mods aren't the only source/cause of how your car handles. As was stated above, the way you drive it through a corner can change how the car reacts. By altering your line through the turn, when/how you brake, where you start to apply power while exiting the turn, etc. all make a noticeable difference on how your car will behave.

For example, you can soften up the front tires by a couple PSI. The best thing you can do is finish braking before entering the turn, and wait until you are past the apex of the turn to start accelerating hard--this maximizes the grip available for the front to hold your line through the turn, and then consequentially allows better acceleration out of the corner with reduced inside wheelspin. You sacrifice a bit of mid-corner speed, but the payoffs are well worth it.

If, and only if, your on the track (don't try on the street) trail-braking will help bring the rear around through the apex of the turn, but risks understeering wide through the turn and leaving the track if done incorrectly, which is why that is a track-only technique.

Those guys who get a little bit of oversteer in these (FWD) cars are running equal or larger diameter rear sway bars than the front bar, something IPD doesn't offer for your car at this point. Since the IPD bars are 25mm front, 22mm rear, they essentially preserve the same handling balance the car came with from the factory, but simply increase stiffness and response.

You might want to consider swapping back to the stock front bar, which would decrease front response somewhat, but would help the rear rotate a bit more rapidly.

[Keep Calm Chive On]

This is a topic often talked about but only briefly every time someone talks about sway bars. IPD does offer a 25mm & possible a 28mm rear sway bar but they typically arent broadcast due to the complete change in handling characteristics in turns. As the front & rear bar become equal diameter the car remains flatter in the turn allowing the rear to actually slide out if you are not away of how the car will react. This can be dangerous especially on a harder driven daily who isn't expecting this or is in the rain. Because of this the bars are typically labeled "neutral" (25mm rear) and "track" (28mm rear). People have said that for a noticeable improvement of understeer they simple upgrade the rear bar alone. The stock front bar will allow enough flex between driver / passenger side to keep it some what manageable while the rear bar tightens up well the rear so that it offers a more neutral feel while renaming fairly close to "stock" driveability without getting into a much thicker rear sway resulting in un-expected kick out.

I have not done any of these upgrades but if you look through the 25mm rear sway group buy thread or some other sway bar upgrade threads you will see a few people who have brushed over this topic. Basically it is more of a harder driven daily driver upgrade without having to go to a much stiffer "neutral" or even "track" kit. It will allow the bar a bit more flex meaning that it will have improvement in the understeer department while still being for the most part driver friendly (aka forgiving)

[Vagabond]

Try a stock NA front sway bar and see how you like the cars dynamics then.

Should be easy enough to test.

[andyb5]

This is a topic often talked about but only briefly every time someone talks about sway bars. IPD does offer a 25mm & possible a 28mm rear sway bar but they typically arent broadcast due to the complete change in handling characteristics in turns.

IPD offers larger sway bars for the P2 R models--street and track--but those won't fit the OPs car (01 S60 FWD LPT) since they are designed for AWD models. (its essentially the same deal with the P80 FWD/AWD rear sways)

As far as I know, IPD doesn't offer larger FWD rear sways than 22mm setup the OP has installed.

[Gideon35T]

i mostly rely on my geartronic for corner braking - by staying in the lowest gear needed for the speed i'm at i can use throttle lift to shift weight forward and get more bite out of the fronts - iirc rbod doesnt have geartronic but it can still be done with braking

but again, ive all but given up hope on having even my gutted S60 handle a corner like i would prefer it to :-/

the sway bar idea does sound reasonable tho - might be worth a shot

[ozzimark]

35psi front, 38 psi rear

Swap those, you want higher pressure in the front than the rear.

IPD front and rear sway bars

What diameter?

bilstein sport front shocks

koni sport rears

It's important to have damping ratios somewhat matched between front and rear. How bouncy are the Bilsteins compared to the Konis? What do you have the rebound set to on the Konis?

as much negative camber as the car can run without plates or eccentric bolts.

Depending on your tires, this may not be a good thing. Have you gotten an alignment since changing the camber?

[Keep Calm Chive On]

shit balls I didnt even read the S60 part... my bad

[Zeal]

Having softer suspension setup in the front may help. I find if the car has that slight amount of time to lean and transfer the weight slower in the front, rather than solid and stiff all around, it will grip a bit more in the front, while allowing the stiffer rear to slide out a bit. Otherwise, it's all driving techniques.

[rbodor3]

Good responses it seems, I understand the driver mod part. I am not Stiggy, but I want to hold more power throughout the corner (yes I know I all the banter about platform blah blah). I see what your'e saying andy, but I really want to not drop in tight turns which is where I loose all my time.

Gideon yes I'm running the UPSOLUTE tune still and yes it still blows and yes I'm planning on getting a new tune soon but first want to pave the way in a well-documented manual swap for the p2 s60. My throttle response is far too aggressive than desirable due to the poor tuning of upsolute.

Ozzi, thanks for the advice on the tire psi I don't know where I got that mixed up

Swap those, you want higher pressure in the front than the rear.

What diameter?

17"

It's important to have damping ratios somewhat matched between front and rear. How bouncy are the Bilsteins compared to the Konis? What do you have the rebound set to on the Konis?

bilsteins softer than the konis, I was trying to loosen up the rear.

Depending on your tires, this may not be a good thing. Have you gotten an alignment since changing the camber?

yessir, with negligible toe.

[fastwagonhawaii]

I Have read that a pretty good set up for suspension would be having a stop sway up front with some kind of hd end-links. and to have a performance sway bar in the rear. Of course with some good shocks such as koni's or bilsteins. I think tiki runs this kind of set up on the race car. I plan on running this kind of set up, since i have heard it from several sources.

[Johann]

Harden the front, soften the rear (A lot). Play with toe on the rear axle. Use throttle lift/weight transfer to steer the rear and drive different lines and throttle points. Don't power in to corners to much, enter wide, touch apex and wide out on power. Sometimes it is even better to enter a corner wide and much deeper than you normally would. Turn in sharper and try to shift the apex further through the corner, late apex. This way you can throttle through the corner much earlier sort of making the corner a straighter line. Apply throttle when the wheels are near straight, not at full lock...

The iPD sways have good balance as they are but check the front sway links.

Example of how non obvious corners can be,

[ozzimark]

17"

17" swaybar? There's your issue

bilsteins softer than the konis, I was trying to loosen up the rear.

As Johann said, you want the rear to be firmer than the front, especially in a FWD car. I know were not picking springs for coilovers here, but typically you'll want the natural frequency of the rear end to be a few tenths higher in the rear (like 2.3Hz in the back, 2.0Hz in the front for a pretty aggressive autox setup), and damping ratios about equal between the two (Around 0.6-0.7).

By making the rear looser, you are giving it more traction and making the understeer worse. Tighten up the rear and loosen the front :tup: