Che'_Moderator Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Avoid Walmart anything. Half the time what you get at Walmart is not the same product you get else where. But yeah. There is no point running a true synthetic on a grocery getter. Just run mobile 1 10w40 or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedishiron Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Redline 10W30- expensive but excellent , may not be worth it on an older car that isn't modified. Otherwise Mobil 1 products are fine. Shell Rotella 5W40 synthetic is good choice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I've worked at an oil change shop for the past 6 years now so you can say i have seen a good deal regarding oil changes. I'll split this into 3 parts, with the most important first: OIL CHANGE INTERVALS - lots of people here will tell you 5k is fine, 7.5k is fine or even 10k is fine and its not. I check every car before i drain the oil and the customers that do these intervals have no idea the damage they do to their engines. if your are doing more than 5k, your oil will leave thick, black crude inside your engine that you cannot get out with 1 oil change. you shouldn't be consuming any oil, maybe .5 quarts at most between oil changes. I see cars that follow the service light on the dash, and still have oil looking black even after the change. I change my oil every 2.5k miles, but i drive hard and it gets really dirty. I change my moms oil every 3k and there are not leaks and no consumption at 200k miles. my first volvo was a platinum 850 and i sold it at 350k, still running strong, and never went past 3k intervals. I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong here, but for those of you who believe 5k and longer is alright, then look under you oil cap and tell me what you see. It should be a light brown color with no black crud and your camshaft lobes should shine. And oil should be a very light yellow on the dipstick after a change, if it isn't then I recommend you change it more often to keep your engine clean. OIL TYPES - all major brands (pennzoil, mobil, castrol, valvoline, shell) are the same. whether its high mileage conventional or full synthetic, these brands compete with each other and offer the same quality stuff. I cannot speak for amsoil, redline, or royal purple, but i hear thats the good stuff as well. in deciding whether or not to use synthetic, its really a car by car basis. if you have a new car, use synthetic, especially if its turbo. if you have an older car and its burning some oil, run a high mileage oil for 3-4 oil changes until it stops losing oil (make sure you do the PCV too or you will lose oil), then you can switch to synthetic, keep with the high mileage or even put the basic stuff in there. Make sure you use a well known brand. I have seen tests comparing Pennzoil conventional oil outperform a no-name synthetic. Whenever i buy a used car, I use a high mileage first then switch to synthetic. And remember that OIL is OIL - whether you use conventional or synthetic, oil will get dirty and break down, so change it often. Synthetic does not mean you can go longer, its advantages are that it flows faster and doesnt get affected by heat or cold as much. This makes its easier on the engine to pump the oil and keep itself cool, which is why it is recommended for better performance and better gas mileage. OIL WEIGHT - this is also a car by car basis, AND DEPENDS ON YOUR CLIMATE, but here are some recommendations as a guide (i'm from CT so this is my climate) new car or low oil consumption - 5w30 for normal driving - 5w40 for high revving/modded (I have seen this only in synthetic) and by high revving I mean those manual drivers that like the redline - 10w40/50 synthetic for highly modded engines, usually seen in racing and not DD older car with oil consumption - dont use synthetic because it is faster flowing --> leak/burn faster - 10w30 (less than 1 quart per 3k miles)(recommend a high mileage) - 10w40 (less than 2 quarts per 3k, and this should be a high mileage) - 15w40 (more than 3 quarts per 3k, this is serious and engine will have external leaks as well, usually these cars use 15w40 for life) - dont start using this unless you have a lot of consumption Im speaking from experience when writing this so its not some unproven theories. if you want your engine to last long and be strong, then change your oil! its the most important thing you can do for your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolvoEd Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I'd love for this guy to explain then why many people have been doing 10,000 miles oil changes with Mobil 1 for decades with no issues whatsoever. I usually change my oil between 5K and 7.5K with my last one being almost 9,000 miles during my road trip to Alaska. With 178,000 miles on the engine, I'm not even slightly concerned about the way I've been taking care of it. "look under you oil cap and tell me what you see" - Nice and shiny, cams has no varnish whatsoever. "And oil should be a very light yellow on the dipstick after a change" - After my 9,000 mile change, I could barely see the new oil on the dipstick it was that clean. Oil change shops force feed the 3,000 mile myth to people as if oil hasn't changed at all in the last 40 years. Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casida Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 VolvoEd has the right idea, but to further elaborate, the breakdown of antioxidants and anti-frothing agents isn't dictated by milage, (which doesn't really put a litres of flow per time measure in, ANYway.) It's mostly time. Age matters in some cases more than 'miles.' It's more of a duty cycle thing. If you drive your car short (sub-20 miles) trips frequently, your oil won't ever get up to temperature, and you'll likely have larger carbon deposits. If you drive your car long distances in a run (200 miles or more a day) you should be keeping a close eye on oil consumption and condition. If you do marathon drives, check it along the way. Use common sense. =) It's just like tire pressure and other maintenance intervals; Check and repair when needed, but don't obsessively stick to a number. A general guideline isn't bad to go by, but stating dictum that everyone will have the same experience if they don't change their oil frequently doesn't take into account that I mash my long pedal to the floor and drive quite quickly frequently, whereas my friend rolls the windows down and cruises for long miles, albiet through dusty country side. To elaborate on the oil is oil commentary. Oil is, indeed, oil. However, detergents, anti-frothing agents, zinc do make a substantial difference in life and effect. For most people, this shouldn't matter much. Synthetics come in two basic forms of base oil, which is the actual oil that the bottle contains, one being hydrocracked oils (Group II and III) and the other being PAO (group IV+) oils. What does this mean, in a practical sense? Well, longevity of components, including detergents and the other additives, mostly. Why? All motor oils have a number of particles per million that are large enough to cause inconsistent chemical reactions, which can perpetuate oxidization of the remaining elements within the oil. Hydrocracked oils are just conventional oils that have been processed (hydrocracked) to create more consistent carbon chain length. PAO oils are synthesized and further refined, creating the most consistent oil that we have today, which increases the consistency and decreases volatility of the motor oils. What this means to you: - Conventional oils should be changed more frequently than synthetics. - Hydrocracked synthetics should be changed more frequently than PAO synthetics. - 'Your Milage May Vary.' Always take the usage and environment of your vehicle into account when working on it. Examples of Hydrocracked/PAO/Conventional oils: - Amsoil (ASL), Group IV PAO, Service life of ~25k - Castrol Syntec, Group III Hydrocracked, Service life of ~8k - Castrol GTX, Group II Base Oil, Service life of ~5k As you can see, there are some crazy differences in expected longevity of the oil, but strictly speaking, if you stick to common sense, you should be just fine (TM.) For the record, I run Amsoil 5w40 diesel oil. The anti frothing agents jive well with the turbocharger. =) Frothy oil + turbo = premature shaft and bearing wear. Most diesel oils have really heavy anti-frothing agents, though, so if that's what you're looking for, it's fairly easy to find. I also do lots of very long (1k+ in a day) drives for fun, so... Again, YMMV. =) - Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Wooohoo! I knew this thread would take off eventually. Fuel for the fire. In my trucks I have gone 35k on changes with 0 issues, with assays coming back clean. On the cars I have gone 6k on the same oil that only last 3k the time before with the exact same location and route being driven. Time is a huge factor. Most oil goes to shit after 8 months. Some of the racing and syn oils are even worse because they have less stabalizers in it. Amsoil = / Amway I use it in the truck, only because its dirt cheap. Amsoil is about on par with Castrol. Whats a better debate than this is filters. Amsoil goes 25k if you believe them, but a mobile 1 filter will go into bypass at 6k. Hummmmmm. Oh wait, Amsoil makes a 25k filter. Whats the trick? It only catches things 4 times larger than the M1. Don't get me wrong. I personally believe 20um filtration is fine. But even at 20um, filters do not last 25k. Thats the reason you see soot and boulder filters on trucks before the primary filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the commissar! Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 So if I run 20,000 miles a year and do changes every 5k because it is easy for me to remember and keep track of, I can run M1 or Rotella or whatever group II/III ACEA A3/A4 qualified synth. oil on a Mann/M1/PP1 filter and be happy happy happy :arob: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolvoEd Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 The cartridge style filters are really amazing. In Europe they've been doing 15,000+ mile changes forever. The OEM Mahle filter I took off after 9,000 miles of driving showed no gunk buildup, plenty of life left in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedishiron Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I did 10K oil changes in normally aspirated 1985 740GLE using Mobil 1 synthetic and OEM filter in the late 90's w/ no issues. I think based on this experience (and lots of reading on BITOG) most normally aspirated engines (excluding Direct Injection engines) would be fine doing 10K hops on Mobil 1 EP or Redline. Direct Injection engines have had and may still (newest ones) have some serious fuel dilution concerns that negates extended oil changes., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tca217 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 The way I figure it, it is just cheap insurance to change your oil every 3000 to 3500 miles and use a good quality filter. It isn't that expensive so why stretch it to 7500 or 10,000 miles? That logic to me is like saying only take a shower once a month instead of every day because you can. Sure you could go for a month without a shower but would it hurt to take one more often? Same thing with any kind of service, oil changes, air in the tires, washing your car, checking the water level, Just because something CAN go for a long time doesn't really mean it should. This is only my opinion and my working experience background with being a fleet mechanic for a major cross country truck line for the better part of my working life, over 30 years. I change my oil every 3000 with a Mann filter. 208,000 and still going strong......................TIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 The way I figure it, it is just cheap insurance to change your oil every 3000 to 3500 miles and use a good quality filter. It isn't that expensive so why stretch it to 7500 or 10,000 miles? That logic to me is like saying only take a shower once a month instead of every day because you can. Sure you could go for a month without a shower but would it hurt to take one more often? Same thing with any kind of service, oil changes, air in the tires, washing your car, checking the water level, Just because something CAN go for a long time doesn't really mean it should. This is only my opinion and my working experience background with being a fleet mechanic for a major cross country truck line for the better part of my working life, over 30 years. I change my oil every 3000 with a Mann filter. 208,000 and still going strong......................TIM exactly 100% correct, couldve have said it better myself just to elaborate on those people that change their oil once a year with mobil 1 and claim they have no issues is not true. those engines at 150k drink oil and leak it like its their jobs, that is why manufacturers had to increase oil capacities (MB with 8 qts for a 3.0 v6) and install splash shields underneath the engines (audi is known for this on every car) to prevent oil leaks on the driveway in order to claim that their intervals are every 15k. you can change your oil once a year but its not healthy at all for the engine. more frequent intervals just ensures that leaks dont pop up. my mothers car has 201k and i just changed her oil today and there is not a single leak underneath that engine, not even on the rear main seal. there is no reason why these 5-cyl engines wont go 500k if you keep up with the oil, timing belt, and pcv, even if you drive like a nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolvoEd Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 So you're claiming that 5,000 - 10,000 mile changes make engines leak more? Come on... I've almost got 180K on mine with reasonable changes (never less than 5,000), and no leaks from the engine. You all act like we're still using motor oil from the 1970s. It's come a LONG way. Plus, "cheap insurance" adds up when you're a college student like me. Why not do 7500 mile changes instead of 3000? Because then for the same mileage, I spend about $40 instead of $80, with no additional abnormal wear on the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keaton85 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 The 3K mile OCI if for your grandma (consumer level vehicles). Let's do a little math here for you 3K mile addicts. Let's say an oil change costs $35 dollars and your going for 200K miles? That's a cost of $2,310!! just on oil and filters. We switch over to 6K OCI's and we reduce that to $1,155 Go ever further to 9K OCI's and we are down to $777 ummm, idono about you guys but I think I will pocket my cash money and spend it on what? umm maybe an RN motor say. I bet you could even get 200K miles out of one of these motors on 25K OCI's haha! but to each their own. Redoing ALL my seals is cheaper then 3K OCI's period.... Look over UOA and find one that states that the additive package is depleted at 3K, given it's a quality oil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvos70turbo99 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 i use rotella 15w40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 The 3K mile OCI if for your grandma (consumer level vehicles). Let's do a little math here for you 3K mile addicts. Let's say an oil change costs $35 dollars and your going for 200K miles? That's a cost of $2,310!! just on oil and filters. We switch over to 6K OCI's and we reduce that to $1,155 Go ever further to 9K OCI's and we are down to $777 ummm, idono about you guys but I think I will pocket my cash money and spend it on what? umm maybe an RN motor say. I bet you could even get 200K miles out of one of these motors on 25K OCI's haha! but to each their own. Redoing ALL my seals is cheaper then 3K OCI's period.... Look over UOA and find one that states that the additive package is depleted at 3K, given it's a quality oil! alright i understand where your coming from but working at a shop has its perks like free oil .... so everyone apply to some bs shop and work 5 hrs a week to get the perks lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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