Tearin Down The Engine

[tp_taylor]

Mechanic just let me know my 96 854R is going to need the gasket between the two lower block halves. Any ideas on what gaskets and seals I will need to get to him and where is the most painless in regards to pricing to get them. He said the engine will have to come out and get flipped upside-down. Let me know if there is anything else I should be looking for when the engine gets its tender underbelly exposed. Any input will be much appreciated. Thanks TT

[tp_taylor]

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[BlackT5]

The gasket between the block and crank girdle is a liquid one. Is your motor leaking?

[tp_taylor]

A quart every 90 miles. Thought it was a rear main, but they did a dye test and found it at the cases.

[Flyby]

wow, that sucks a fatty. Umm, well in the order of parts and stuff I would go to FCP groton. They did me well throughout my whole ordeal.

Need:

Liquid Gasket

Small Paint Roller

Small Plastic Putty knife

They say you need to take the engine out....

Get a new O-ring set for inside the oil pan (I think there are 3 gaskets in there).

If the rear main is accessible, do that.

Magnetic Drain Plug

Oil Filter

I'm tired.... can't think of anything else, but I KNOW there is more stuff you can do.

Goodluck

[pfeener]

Here's a previous post for changing the oil pan gasket and the associated "O" rings. The rear main seal is not accessable unless the engine and transmission is removed and separated. Are you sure it not your turbo oil return leaking? It's very problematic, it's in the same area and it's easy to change. (see the post in the repair section) I would change out the turbo oil return gasket first and see if it's still leaking.

I have a ’93 850 so it’s a non-turbo and has an oil level sensor in the front of the pan so many people will skip the oil sensor step and add steps to disconnect the oil cooler lines. Since I didn’t have the oil cooler, I figured there was no need to remove the passenger side wheel so I put the car on ramps for the work. I was successful but it may be best to use jack stands. With an oil cooler, the jack stands will be mandatory since you will need to disconnect the lines through the passenger side wheel well.

2. Put it up on the ramps, drained the oil and removed the filter. It drained and cooled overnight to make things easier.

3. Underneath, the pan can fit through the subframe but it’s a tight fit. The passenger side overlaps the subframe about an inch and the driver side has the power steering lines running underneath. The only way out will be to tip the pan on the driver side below the transaxle to slide it out from above the subframe on the passenger side.

Here are two of the uncomfortable aspects of the job:

The large tab of metal sticking out from the passenger side of subframe toward the pan will need to be bent downward at about 30-45 degrees. It’s a soft metal and won't crack. The power steering lines will need to be bent over far enough that the pan can drop straight down on the driver side. Taking a prybar to rigid metal lines also was not fun for me – but it worked. The alternative is jacking the engine and removing the subframe.

4. I had put the car on jack stands, so I could pull the passenger front wheel, so I could take the cap off the passenger end of the oil pan, it just might have given me enough room to avoid having to bend the metal tab on the subframe.

5. The oil level sensor is disconnected by squeezing the wire on top of the connector and pulling the connector straight off the sensor. Removing the two 10mm screws allows the sensor to pop straight out of the pan including about 5 inches of float and switch.

6. The oil dipstick tube is removed from underneath by a 12mm socket on many extensions. Cut the tie wrap and pull the tube out the top.

7. Remove all the brackets that hold the power steering lines using a Torx T-25 and 12mm sockets. The difficult one to reach at the very front should be last so you can pull the lines down to unscrew the clamp. Remember to re-install this one first.

8. Use a short bungie cord looped around the driver side frame and hook both ends on the power steering lines. Pry the lines toward the transaxle so the pan has enough room to drop straight down. There are brake lines back there so watch where your pry bar rests.

9. Remove the thirty or so bolts that hold on the pan. I went around and broke them all free and then removed them all but 4 until I was ready to catch the pan. I noticed there were different lengths so I laid out each bolt into roughly the pattern on the pan to keep them straight. What I found is that the lengths are obvious and not easily mixed up. Along the front and back are all short, the driver side is the longest, the passenger side is medium. Note one bolt near the oil filter mount – it was sealed with some RTV. On reassembly this bolt should be sealed again.

10. Remove the last 4 bolts and hit the drain plug with a soft hammer to break the pan free. You’ve now crossed the point of no return. At this point I found that the power steering lines needed to be moved over even more and the subframe tab needed to be bent to get the pan out.

11. With the pan out you’ll see the 2 o-rings on the block on the passenger side. Mine were probably original and green colored – the replacements were black. Two 10mm bolts hold the pickup tube to the block. Have the oil catch pan ready for a couple ounces of oil when you break the seal. My dipstick tube and pickup tube original o-rings were red – the replacements were green.

12. Before you reinstall the pickup tube, clean the block mating surface, with the spray gasket remover. I used a piece of cardboard to minimize overspray around the engine. Wait a few minutes and gently, without scratching, just use the razor blade to gather up the dissolved gasket.

13. Clean the oil pan gasket surface with the same spray and gather technique. One interesting note is how much oil was left after allowing it to drain overnight. You’ll see the pan is filled with many horizontal and vertical baffles so you should be aware of particles dropping down into the pan where you can’t see them. I ended up washing out the pan with brake parts cleaner and leaving it tipped on end to dry out.

14. Remove and replace the end cap with a new o-ring on the passenger side of the oil pan. Mine had loctite on the 10mm bolts when I removed it so it got new loctite when I reinstalled.

15. Reattach the pickup tube – rub some clean oil on the o-ring before insertion.

16. Practice installing the pan. Find a couple of the right screws, and how you will hold them. Be sure there is enough room to leave the layer of sealant undisturbed. If the rigid plastic vacuum line on the passenger side is in the way, it can be disconnected at the rubber coupling back where the floorpan of the car begins.

17. On the block, the two thin black o-rings can be held in place with little dabs of the liquid gasket (bright neon pink – not what I expected). Be sure the mating surface is clean and dry with no dirt or dried gasket. I found the walls inside the block for cylinder 4 and 5 kept dribbling oil onto the mating face. I had to wipe up into the block cavity to give myself 10 clean minutes. Paint the pan mating surface with the liquid gasket – just a thin even coat.

18. I installed a couple bolts finger tight on opposite corners to hold the pan and then went around and installed them all finger tight. Then I tightened the 2 big 14mm pan-to-trans bolts to be sure the pan was all the way over, and loosened them again. I went around the pan lightly snugging the bolts from the center outward and then final tightening them again in the same order. I tightened the big 14mm bolts and then just checked around the pan in order to verify the 10mm bolts were still all tight. Maybe I’m nuts but I don’t want to do this again for a leak. Last, the bolt near the oil filter mount that had RTV, I removed it dipped on some liquid gasket and reinstalled it.

19. Install the oil dipstick tube with a new oiled o-ring. The power steering hoses up top pass between the intake and the dipstick tube.

20. Install the oil level sensor with a new oiled o-ring. It’s a tight fit at an awkward angle so you can use the 2 bolts to press it in but be sure you tighten each side a little at a time to press it in evenly. I used loctite on the bolts since they originally had some. The connector just presses on.

21. Remove the bungie cord and reinstall the power steering lines in their brackets. Install the difficult to reach one up front first. Note that the screw can be started a few turns into the nut and the bracket can still be slid onto the metal lines. That will save you trying to fish the nut around back and start the thread. Bend the lines back and tweak them to get all the brackets to bolt up again.

22. Bend the subframe tab back. Watch where you swing that hammer.

23. Put a cable tie around the dipstick tube and power steering rubber line.

24. Tighten the pan drain bolt, install the oil filter, and fill with oil.

25. The car can be started right away since the sealant dries in a few minutes when the parts are put together and no oxygen can reach the sealant.

[Tom]

It's very hard to believe that your engine is losing a quart every 90 miles from between the upper and lower halves of the short-block. Your mechanic was wrong to think there was a gasket there; odds are he's also wrong on where the oil is coming from. I'd look for a place up higher on the the engine that may be dripping onto that area. If it's still mysterious, get a second opinon.

Tom

[tp_taylor]

Thanks for the info. Does FCP sell the liquid gasket, or is an item that can be purchased at a reputible auto store? TT

[freeskier8585]

do a dye test by yourself and see where the leak is coming from.

[BlackT5]

OK guys, after I got my motor done, i had a leak betwen the block and girdle. It was fixed by the motor coming out and them resealing it (under warranty) My motor is still leaking, (different leak) but now from somewhere higher. Trust me, these things are a royal PITA to find.

Where on the seam did he say it was coming from? Like these guys say, it is quite possible that it is running down from a cam seal or some other area. All i'm saying is.. make sure that your guy is 100% sure where the leak is. It will cost a LOT of labor if you aren't doing it yourself...and make sure he will warranty his work

Also.. if you plan on heavily modding your car, and the engine does infact have to come out... it would be a perfect time to throw some stock replacement aftermarket rods in there.

[Flyby]

Thanks for the info.  Does FCP sell the liquid gasket, or is an item that can be purchased at a reputible auto store? TT

←

Yes, FCP sells the liquid gasket

[tp_taylor]

Thanks again. I'll have them look at it a second time, but this has been my mech for many years and I have always trusted him. The car was leaking a quart every 90 or so miles, I think a bit much for a cam seal. TT