Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Man its been a while since I've needed help... Okay so for starters I was headed to a friends to check out his deck and give him some structural pointers regarding enclosing it and making it a green house... Driving there tooling around I took the back road and came to a stop sign facing downhill fair angled... braking & clutch. Proceed through intersection after stopping and it took off normal then put it into 2nd and the pedal came 1/2 way back. Awkwardness occoured as I pulled the pedal back up with my foot & shifted into 3rd and it did it again. Put the shifter into the N position and pumped the clutch a few times and no problems but I got a clutchy smell. This 1/2 clutch occoured 50% of the time after that and I have yet to resolve the issue. I assume my throwout bearing took a dump because the clubbing baby seals noise happens when I start off now but it still takes off. I assumed the angle of the dangle from the stop sign perhaps I got a bit of air in my slave cylinder line so I figured I would bleed it... and found this... That would be the handy work of the people who fucked me over for 2K for a clutch job because he said he could... we won't get into those details but regardless they obviously smacked & cracked the bottom of the slave cylinder housing hole on my frame when they dropped my transmission (look as "what pissed you off today" thread for reference between right & this fucked up hack job" so not only was the slave cylinder piston at an awkward angle aiming into the shift fork, it has about a 1/16" gap between the passenger side of the hole where if SHOULD be flush due to the lack of pressure points, shape, and size. I am sure over time this has caused excessive wear on additional parts which is why I have had the occasional baby seal clubbing sound as well as the feeling of burning clutch / not fully disengaged clutch. Even the ring lock clip was not in properly and their lovely hack job attempt to resolve the break they caused wallowed out the hole itself. I can easily wiggle the slave cylinder around a big and because of their welding, grinding, etc etc the lock clip does not bring the slave cylinder in far enough (1/16" gap as I mentioned plus awkward angle. Well I attempted to bleed the slave and it helped a tad but not much in terms of slipping & pedal feel. The hack repair allowed the slave cylinder to move away slightly from the release fork before moving it. I assume this means that it is not fully engaging or disengaging and potentially hasn't the entire time...? It is only 4 years old and yes I drive like a prick but lets be real the stock one (R clutch from the factory) got a solid 75K on it from the original owner no clue on driving habits, a solid 25K from my mother with moderate driving habits, and another 25K out of it with me being well... me. The clutch kit installed is shown here Not an R clutch as what came originally in my car shown here... (it was only my throwout bearing being a twat) Back on topic... In terms of orientation of both the slave cylinder and the lock pin could someone please verify... Is the bleeder valve to point STRAIGHT UP? and also is the OPEN end up the retainer pin to be at the under most side of the grove within the slave cylinder. I will do my best tomorrow when I go in for round 3 on checking this and maybe someone can give me some tips on how to secure & shim it up properly so that I can use this car as I now need to rely on it since Poop Jeep the IV'th has been skull fucked by a box van. I attempted to bleed the clutch in 3 different manners and still have yet to get a nice stiff pedal from top to bottom. I did the 2 person method, mighty vac method, and the hose in a bottle of fluid method and regardless the pedal feels the same in terms of pressure before & after although I will mention I have not had the 1/2 return event happen again. Someone have a FOOLPROOF way to get any and all air out of the slave cylinder as well as check for any potential air laks throughout the rest of the hose system. I have the older style labeled "11d" in VADIS which is now blocked out in VIDA so mine is a 2 piece unit. I would prefer the 1 piece unit (P/N: 9181437) as it has less potential to have something fuck up as my luck so far in 2012. There is some up/down/all around movement on the shift fork so I am assuming again as I said my throwout bearing is on its way out / or already shit and also that the plastic retaining clip was never installed. The angle of the slave cylinder piston is straight now versus at an angle as stated before because did my best to reinstall it straight although the port is wallowed to shit, but there is still a bit of slop right at the top of the pedal. Also, something I noticed today was that while idling with the clutch in and the car in the neutral position (shifter) there is no noise, when I put the car into ANY gear I get a hissing noise, it comes from the passenger side though which I thought awkward although it is the power wheel. Riddle me that... I am aware that I would need to get in the transmission to see what is truly going on but that isn't an option as of now seeing as I just had my hip re-re-re-rebuilt plus my Jeep was T-boned Friday buy some dumb fuck running a light. Any information regarding anything listed above would be GREATLY appreciated because I have to go back to work Wednesday and the proud owner of 2 vehicles really only has about 3/4 of a vehicle right now... I will also & have been planning although my planning has gotten fucked up repeaditly lately... to swap out my manual transmission oil... My local dealer does not have it in stock and the next closest place is 2+ hours... I'm not working and broke so I went with the Mobil 1 75w90 Synthetic (I feel M1 is hype) but that was the best I could get my hands on. I am aware OEM Oil (1161745) is a 75w80 API GL-4 and I am hoping that using Mobil 1 75w90 won't be an issue and some day when something actually goes right and I don't work my ass off just to get fucked over and have money I will be redoing my transmission to have a "R Clutch" as it originally did as well as use all OEM parts but for now I have to get to work... so anyone give me some inside on the 75w90 because again you have seen the handy work of the fuckers who fixed (basically wrecked) my transmission and lord knows what fluid is actually in there if any at all or even at the right level. On a side note to this... I am aware there are (2) 24mm bolts: Drain & Fill and that most people fill using the reverse light switch port which I intent but I have yet to find an image of the two bolts and what type of washer they use if any similar to the crush washer on the oil pan drain plug. Only tip was that potentially "The disc is hanging onto the input spline" <--- possibility? remedy? Summary.... 1) WTF happened to my clutch when it only came half way back & is there any way to fix it EXTERNALLY as I have no lift(s) or can physically do it. 2) Absolute perfect orientation of slave cylinder bleed valve as well as lock ring thing 2.1) Any way to shim / secure the slave cylinder so that is FULLY IN and FLUSH with the rear of the mounting port? (do they make metal shims) to resolve the welded hack job wallowed out barrel... 3) Clutch is "light" but stiffens up after a few pumps... I can see the line move (11b) no P/N available in VIDA as I am running the 2 part unit. 4) Hissing noise while clutch depressed & idling in ANY gear but goes away when put into the "N" central position. 5) Do seals at the break fluid reservoir tend to leak? any common leak points to check? NO DROPS ANYWHERE I CAN SEE but would love to double check & secure / resolve 6) Mobil 1 75w90 Synthetic Gear oil in M56? Pros / Cons 7) Image or diagram showing drain / fill bolts & specifications regarding washers (if needed) Any and all information is appreciated as I have 2 days to get my car in working order so I can return to work... I will have the clutch replaced, transmission housing too (because of the slave hack job), and all other internals but that might be a bit as I just dropped my tax return on fixing PJ IV which is currently a paper weight. Part donations accepted haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 well... I fixed the moving / wollowed out slave cylinder port so that it is fully seated. Used a housing nail and bent it to the proper radius and wedged it into where the end SHOULD be. Bled the slave cylinder so I have flawless pedal movement and such. The clutch is still semi engaged and I believe that it is because the throwout bearing took a dump and possibly is unseated from the release fork. I will need to obviously have my clutch & associated parts replaced but here comes a question that someone might chime in on? My gears & all shift perfectly... the clutch hisses with clutch depressed and IN GEAR. then goes away when I remove it from gear... There is no way to EXTERNALLY re-seat the release fork onto the throwout bearing I assume? please let me know if I am wrong. And also, I would like to keep MY GEARS and hard part internals of my transmission but I need a new bell housing or at least the trans/block mating portion of it so that I will have a PROPER slave cylinder mount... is this possible? and what would the estimated difficulty / time / charge be to have a dealership do all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapShot Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 First of all, it really sucks that you got properly worked over by the last mechanic you had in there. I don't think a dealership is going to want to split the bellhousing open on your transmission...i could be wrong though. What you could do is something I had done on an M58 going into my brothers wagon...modify the bellhousing to accept an internal slave cylinder. I already had a new cylinder and the clutch line and it made no sense to run out and buy the whole external shindig...thus, I took it to a machine shop which milled the ring around the input shaft to accept the slave. It cost ~125 total iirc. I brought both the M58 and an internal M56 with an old internal slave I had just so they had all the measurements and could check fitment. See pictures below for results. The dealership would probably install the newer style clutch line and the internal slave into the newly modified trans housing and put it back together for you. I realize you lose the capability to replace the slave without separating the engine/trans but considering how long the internal slaves last I don't think that should worry you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I think the moral to the story is that I need a new bell housing and I would prefer to keep it as an external only because that is how it originally came. I am more or less worried about cost at this point because I cant afford some brand new complete transmission nor do I want a Junk Yard transmission with unknown records and condition. Basically I found a fantastic 1997 850 5-speed and in car it shifted phenomenal but in reality I just want the bell housing and to then have someone transfer all of my gears, etc. over into that. Then still do a clutch job with pressure plate, clutch, fork, bearings, blah blah blah. I am just trying to see if this can actually be a reality (swapping my current gears into another bell housing. I am trying to find out this weekend because a friend said he would be nice enough to drop the transmission for me and have it at his shop and once I have money albeit it is going to be quite some time, rebuilt & reinstall... I am still trying to decipher the whole thing as now I own 2 vehicles yet can drive 0 of them. I can not physically do the work although I know how to do it which is what sucks. I need to get the plate of the transmission at the Junkyard with the nice bell housing & gear box to see what exact transmission it is as well as then trying for compatibility & how extensive it would be to swap all my gear packs over to a new housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvoskiah Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 1994 Transmission Bellhousing Only Volvo 850 A KL005 $Call Erie Vo-Vo, Inc. USA-NY(Whitesboro) E-mail 1-888-865-8613 158 1995 Transmission Bellhousing Only Volvo 850 A KL001 $Call Erie Vo-Vo, Inc. USA-NY(Whitesboro) E-mail 1-888-865-8613 158 1995 Transmission Bellhousing Only Volvo 850 A KL012 $Call Erie Vo-Vo, Inc. USA-NY(Whitesboro) E-mail 1-888-865-8613 158 If not, near Tom: 997 Transmission Volvo 850 OK,P.V/MT, FWD (w/o Spd sensr)-117K 117,000 A Y2575 $199 Jack's Used Cars and Parts USA-MA(North-Billerica) Request_Quote 1-888-873-5225 Request_Insurance_Quote 244 Near you: Transmission Volvo 850 2.45SAC,TESTED-A-, 117,105 A 015629 $274.19 Southern Tier Auto Recycling USA-NY(Beaver-Dams) Request_Quote 1-800-640-7995 Request_Insurance_Quote 51 1997 Transmission Volvo 850 2.45SAC 105,147 A 013082 $274.19 Southern Tier Auto Recycling USA-NY(Beaver-Dams) Request_Quote 1-800-640-7995 Request_Insurance_Quote 51 Near me, I would take the gears if you just wanted the bell housing: 1996 Transmission Volvo 850 FWD,2.4,T,CRU,DEL,BLK,5SPD,Flr 2413 $250 Bill's Auto Parts Tolland USA-CT(Tolland) Request_Quote 1-800-552-4557 Request_Insurance_Quote 188 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 called Erie already... those postings are 8 years or 8 months I forgot... old though The debachle is 94-95 usually had M56L (I know just different 1 & 2nd gear) but... I know EVERYTHING about my car and my transmission shifts like butter. I want to replace only my bellhousing. AKA swap in MY gear packs etc etc etc and just have a bell housing that wasn't fucked up, never discussed about, and then welded together... I have a potential 97 donor 850 NA Manual and I have to assume (and will check) that it is a M56H like myself... if that's the case, I will try to get the money for it as well as money someone to pull it for me (local) BEFORE I DO THAT... I need to know that I can essentially transfer all the internal shit (aside from typical clutch replacement shit) from bell housing to bell housing as I intend on KEEPING my gears etc as I know how they are and have been treated basically I need to make sure that it is the same bell housing... and that I can swap internals from one to another... and by "I" I mean someone else as I physically can't seeing as #10 is being held in with a housing nail bent to the correct radius then pressed in... I have to do the clutch as well as the bell housing... fun fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapShot Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 If you're trying to stay reasonable on cost I would figure out everything you need to replace to keep the external slave and tally it up, and compare it to switching to internal slave (machining+parts). Internal slave has far fewer parts than the external setup. All you'd need is a hydraulic line, the little plastic elbow connector with the bleed screw and the slave cylinder. You also wouldn't need to crack the bellhousing open and risk screwing something up in there albeit unlikely. Didn't boxpin have bad luck recently with a spring pin? Honestly you shouldn't worry that it's not the same as what came on the car unless you're going to concours ...if it works and it's cheaper that's what I would do. Also, you can definitely run the 272218 clutch kit and the single mass flywheel you have with the internal slave. Works great. Might consider doing RMS too while someone's in there if it hasn't been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 My car came stock with a R clutch 272218... thats the sad part... and whats in there is 272273 but regardless it never let my clutch fully disengage so... boom goes the dynamite... RMS for a whole 20 dollars will also be getting done Parts I need are just under 400 Transmission sale At JY for 64.99 + core etc = 100 ish Resurfacing flywheel = 60 ish yay 600 monopoly dollars... time to suck up my pride and call my parentals as all my money was invested in my DD and that got skull fucked by a box truck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 1997 Transmission Volvo 850 OK,P.V/MT, FWD (w/o Spd sensr)-117K 117,000 A Y2575 $199 Jack's Used Cars and Parts USA-MA(North-Billerica) Request_Quote 1-888-873-5225 Request_Insurance_Quote 244 Today... the car & I say a little prayer and I drive it to Long Tom Tom Long's... after that... new clutch yob & a lot of hopes & dreams It was discussed that it is best to replace the whole transmission and take my chances that its actually GRADE A as described and nothing is fucked up... There are bearing races at the end of the outer half of the bellhousing... after high miles they become friends with the gear sets... and mostly break if to be removed. And attempting to mix & match might leave me fucked worse than I currently am... Not really what I wanted to do but A) I cant get the bearing race part numbers nor am I made of money, and C) because B + ) = My transmission is perfect with exception of the slave cylinder housing... idk ANYONE IN THE MASS AREA if you see me on the side of the road... I dont have an AXE I wont stab you... scoop a brotha up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Will Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Get rid of the Mobil 1 gear oil in that transmission. The sulfur will eat away your gears. You need to use GL-4 gear oil (no sulfur). Doesn't have to be the Volvo stuff but something around a 75W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 yes the M1 is getting returned ASAP... and there is Royal Purple for 19.99 @ advanced auto + sneaky coupon aka same price for M1 as R.P. aka 22.25 darra ish for 3 qts The Royal Purple is 75W90 GL-4 & GL-5 as well... OEM is 75W80 GL-4 Glad big willy style hopped in here cause seriously... Im lost... I like my gears cause I know they are in good shape... but the end races on the front half of the bell housing of a doner might not be friendly with my transmission plus mine could break coming out etc etc they said... just suck it up and put the new transmission in... and the car has more personal value than financial so I'm just looking whats best for the car any other helpful hints? OEM Juice or RP 75W90 ? Bueller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvoskiah Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 OEM volvo is 13.96 per quart from tasca and you only need 2 Might as well order that when you order the new clutch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Will Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I used RP once in my M58 but changed it out quickly. It was probably a coincidence but BMac's M56 grenaded shortly after we put RP in it...I would just stick to Genuine Volvo fluid. It isn't very expensive. I'm using BMW MTF LTII in my M58 at the moment but that's just because it's what was around and has about the same specs as the Volvo fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Items Ordered: Item: CLUTCH KIT Price: $194.02 Tax: $12.13 Qty: 1 Total: $206.15 Item: Clutch Clutch & flywheel Release bearing S70, V70 Price: $54.83 Tax: $3.43 Qty: 1 Total: $58.26 Item: Clutch Clutch & flywheel Release fork S70, V70 Price: $34.36 Tax: $2.15 Qty: 1 Total: $36.51 Item: engine, crankshaft & bearings, rear main seal C70, S70, V70 2.3L, 2.4L, 2.5L Price: $19.79 Tax: $1.24 Qty: 1 Total: $21.03 Item: SEALING RING Price: $6.49 Tax: $0.81 Qty: 2 Total: $13.79 Item: SCREW Price: $2.54 Tax: $1.59 Qty: 10 Total: $26.99 Item: HEX. SOCKET SCREW Price: $0.94 Tax: $0.35 Qty: 6 Total: $5.99 Item: TRANSMISSION OIL Price: $13.96 Tax: $1.75 Qty: 2 Total: $29.67 Item: PIVOT PIN Price: $5.83 Tax: $0.36 Qty: 1 Total: $6.19 Item: BALL SEAT Price: $1.87 Tax: $0.12 Qty: 1 Total: $1.99 Item: SNAP RING Price: $0.77 Tax: $0.05 Qty: 1 Total: $0.82 ----------------------------- Items Total: $407.39 Shipping Method: UPS Ground Shipping: $44.82 Order Total: $452.21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep Calm Chive On Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Sad Car in Bawston... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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