fischmama Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I am pretty sure the police, fire, road, etc, resources he uses do not total 2M a year. On the flip side, look at the social economic distribution of wealth and power. What happens if the poor become the majority? You really want a large mass of people who obviously suck with money running the nation? I understand that certain people have other views and I am not going to attack your first statement (nor your second actually, just commenting on it). The large mass (or the future majority) doesn't suck when it comes to handling money (some sure do/small percentage). They do the average Joe type of work, that just doesn't pay as well as Business owners like Mitt and other people. I don't want those people running the country that only care about how much money they make and for example stop investing in a company that only gives them 3-5% growth rate/return on investment over the wanted 10-15% of that of "healthy" businesses and let them go bankrupt or go out of business completely. That's the wrong attitude. This will be an endless discussion and I understand part of you point. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Dave sometimes I think your a pretty smart guy who's up on subjects and matter, then you just blow it with comments about it being BO fault for gas prices and comments like above Have you ever changed your opinion on something major? Political party's, gay rights, women's pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 They can be fair OR equal but not both. Having said that, as of right now they are neither. I am not championing Mitt or any specific person, but one of my favorite quotes as of late, is Mitt was not paying a fair share of taxes. I am pretty sure the police, fire, road, etc, resources he uses do not total 2M a year. On the flip side, look at the social economic distribution of wealth and power. What happens if the poor become the majority? You really want a large mass of people who obviously suck with money running the nation? But that is the circular argument in a capitalistic economy within a social republic. All things "equal" yes the amount paid in taxes should equal your share of resources spread, but then what is "fair" given your input into services is not balanced. But what of the human condition? Do individuals benefit or does the society from this setup? Are cops better for those who are rich? Schools? Roads? Security? That is where the market economy comes in and people with resources get choices not afforded to those who pay less tax, or have the means to not pay tax at all. My household is in the highest tax bracket, and no its not "fair" for our household to pay a disproportionate percentage of our income than a millionaire who has the means to be able to pay less, and yes I'm unhappy about it, but I like to think that it is for the greater good. If I had the means, I'd do all I could to pay less and save more, I just don't at this stage in life, so I deal with it. And I have to disagree that somehow those with minimal to no income or do not understand how to manage money will have large amounts of influence on how a democracy is going to be run. Leaders of those nations currently in the world did not get to ruining their economies because they were poor and had no power or influence to begin with. Who knows, with the rapidly changing demographics of the US, no matter who is running the country or how the tax and resources are applied and distributed, the future is completely uncertain. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Actually the poor have a disproportionate influence when you consider that politicians are able to "buy" their votes by giving them someone else's (yours and mine) money. And I think in part that is Chuck's point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 But that is the circular argument in a capitalistic economy within a social republic. All things "equal" yes the amount paid in taxes should equal your share of resources spread, but then what is "fair" given your input into services is not balanced. But what of the human condition? Do individuals benefit or does the society from this setup? Are cops better for those who are rich? Schools? Roads? Security? That is where the market economy comes in and people with resources get choices not afforded to those who pay less tax, or have the means to not pay tax at all. My household is in the highest tax bracket, and no its not "fair" for our household to pay a disproportionate percentage of our income than a millionaire who has the means to be able to pay less, and yes I'm unhappy about it, but I like to think that it is for the greater good. If I had the means, I'd do all I could to pay less and save more, I just don't at this stage in life, so I deal with it. And I have to disagree that somehow those with minimal to no income or do not understand how to manage money will have large amounts of influence on how a democracy is going to be run. Leaders of those nations currently in the world did not get to ruining their economies because they were poor and had no power or influence to begin with. Who knows, with the rapidly changing demographics of the US, no matter who is running the country or how the tax and resources are applied and distributed, the future is completely uncertain. How much you pay in medicare and social security? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Said it before, huntsman would have gotten a different result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 This morning heard on NPR that many Republicans (those who are ardent pro-life supporters) are musing that the issue was they didn't have a true conservative running who reached their core supporters. There's no hope for them unless the party abandons its tight focus on social issues. Kick the Evangelicals to the curb. What are they going to vote for a Liberal or Democrat? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishing3 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 A, you're right, but even your acceptance level on A is not ok for me or many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge_Brownie Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 This morning heard on NPR that many Republicans (those who are ardent pro-life supporters) are musing that the issue was they didn't have a true conservative running who reached their core supporters. There's no hope for them unless the party abandons its tight focus on social issues. Kick the Evangelicals to the curb. What are they going to vote for a Liberal or Democrat? Wow. It's almost like we need a third party. With similar fiscal conservation, but socially liberal. Oh wait, there was. I'm going to have to grow a neckbeard to support my libertarian prodding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 How much you pay in medicare and social security? More than people that make less than me and use it? SS will be a mess by the time it pays, guess I could try to figure out how to opt out. Medicare, different story, I have had family that could not have lived without it, but then again I pay for it and don't and will likely never use it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 More than people that make less than me and use it? I meant percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I meant percentage. Of course it is skewed, no 1st world country is balanced. What do you think would work better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn-E Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 More than people that make less than me and use it? SS will be a mess by the time it pays, guess I could try to figure out how to opt out. Medicare, different story, I have had family that could not have lived without it, but then again I pay for it and don't and will likely never use it, You can't opt out of SS unless you fit in a very select group and/or work for the government in certain States. Given your description of yours and your wife's chosen fields of employment / salary you don't qualify. That is unless you're still a "Teacher" in Texas as an administrator for a private school - doubtful. That or join the Amish, Anabaptists, Mennonites, or a Healthcare Sharing Ministry but given you appear to regard religious beliefs as essentially the product of ill ventilated minds, it seems that is also unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che'_Moderator Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Of course it is skewed, no 1st world country is balanced. What do you think would work better? VAT. Spend more pay more. Keep food except. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow95 Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I don't want those people running the country that only care about how much money they make. Thats where I differ. To me thats like saying I need a running back but I dont want one as good as Adrian Peterson. I want someone running the country that wants to maximize our wealth, maximize our strength. Not someone that wants to spread it evenly. The US wasnt built on that premise but many 2nd and 3rd tier countries were. Thats not what I want for my son. Hell for me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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