Fishey Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Quite a few guys on here very happy with their cars after NA cam install. And as I said before, one of the Euro forums had a giy show I think 20whp after NA cam install. It either works or it doesnt. Turbo cams and NA cams with too much over lap can cause negative affects. Its just proper set that makes it work. Well, was it N/A Cam or N/A cams... As I have always said N/A intake cam isnt a bad modification but running both is were you get into trouble. There is just no way to run the exhaust cam without having adverse effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublin14 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 It was Cam's as far as I know! The last guy that I remember on VS was Maciekb2002 that swapped from turbo cams to NA cams and said how his car woke up big time with the 93 NA cams. I cant speak for myself as I did a bunch of work at once, including 93 cams, and my car pulls like a raped ape and beats many very quick cars. So if there is adverse affects Im not feeling it? If its true or not about the exhaust cam, then at this point talk is just that. We need someone to take out the NA exh cam and swap in the Turbo cam and give some proper feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxman Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Okay for me it's a bit of a trade off between effort and positive effects. I have never timed cams and i don't have the proper tools for it yet. So when installing the intake cam only, does the timing need adjusting? If the gains are not that big over the turbo cams (i.e. If i can reach my 400whp goal on turbo cams or not, given the gt3071r turbo, 40mm intercooler and good injectors etc), i'd rather not bother with them if i have to fiddle with timing (adding the risk i get it wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappo Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 There are a few places that sell cam timing tools. It is just a plate that bolts on the cam gear and you make your adjustments there. You should probably have one given you are building your engine yourself. It appears your biggest issue getting to 400 HP will actually be the stock MAF. I believe I am maxing mine out now at 360-370 bhp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxman Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Martijn_B already pointed out i need to upgrade my afr sensor. Upgrading the MAF as well shouldn't be too big a hassle, right? Any tips on which one i should get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jardim Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 ^If you are keeping the car on M.4X and not standalone or TT.....Then you can just swap MAF housings and get it tuned for that size housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
850wagonT5 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Nothing but butt dynos for the cams. Even in a best case scenario, they wouldn't do a whole lot...ie, 20whp?! Come on. The $1400 aftermarket cams with *significantly* more lift (10+mm), made from scratch for performance, don't even claim that. Mine are coming out soon, and I will be happy they are gone. I don't need any more burnt exhaust valves from trial and error on the cam timing, and butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappo Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Your problem with the cams is overlap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
854TGA+ Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Nothing but butt dynos for the cams. Even in a best case scenario, they wouldn't do a whole lot...ie, 20whp?! Come on. The $1400 aftermarket cams with *significantly* more lift (10+mm), made from scratch for performance, don't even claim that. Mine are coming out soon, and I will be happy they are gone. I don't need any more burnt exhaust valves from trial and error on the cam timing, and butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate. Try to pick up 20 horse for like $50.00 / cheapest hp increase! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublin14 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Nothing but butt dynos for the cams. Even in a best case scenario, they wouldn't do a whole lot...ie, 20whp?! Come on. The $1400 aftermarket cams with *significantly* more lift (10+mm), made from scratch for performance, don't even claim that. Mine are coming out soon, and I will be happy they are gone. I don't need any more burnt exhaust valves from trial and error on the cam timing, and butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate. "Mileage unknown Cylinder compression 120 psi last time I checked, likely lower by now Clacking rod bearings Cracked cylinder head running liquid block seal Burnt valve(s)" No wonder NA cams didnt give you much in the butt dyno lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishey Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 You get burnt exhaust valves when you open the exhaust valve to early because you went to far to reduce overlap.. the problem of having to much duration in the exhaust cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn_B Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 You can use the MAF of an Audi S3 but it requires some soldering I think. You should upgrade the intake pipe from the airbox to the Turbo too. The reason is that the original intake pipe has a narrow bend that reduces airflow. Then I think we all agree that an AFR gauge is mandatory when aiming for 400whp. As for the N/A cams: Im currently running both, but will start my engine build later this week and will just use the intake cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
850wagonT5 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 "Mileage unknown Cylinder compression 120 psi last time I checked, likely lower by now Clacking rod bearings Cracked cylinder head running liquid block seal Burnt valve(s)" No wonder NA cams didnt give you much in the butt dyno lol Cams were installed about a year before the engine was damaged. So...no, this has nothing at all to do with it. And the car still makes 300whp@15psi in that condition, so yes, I would notice if the car gained or lost 10hp. You get burnt exhaust valves when you open the exhaust valve to early because you went to far to reduce overlap.. the problem of having to much duration in the exhaust cam. Yep...as I already stated a page or two ago, and why I'm trying to explain to people that an N/A cam set is not exactly a huge power mod. I just don't want people expecting the same thing from a pair of junkyard cams as they would from a nice pair of purpose-ground performance cams. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublin14 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, for you NA cams didnt give you as much as you wanted vs others that did get a positive increase. But then you'll say the butt dyno is inaccurate if thats the case, which is sort of true also. And Im pretty sure people wont expect the same HP from $50 cams vs $1000+ custom cams. As for the burnt valves, maybe you did go too far messing around trying to reduce overlap? Who knows? Lots of other NA cam users with no issues including myself with 1000s of miles of use. So really... until we get a solid back to back dyno info here on VS with turbo vs NA cams, most of this is just speculation on individual opinions! Guess we'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxman Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Considering a FMIC now, whats the best option for my build? - Larger intercooler (50mm) at the stock location (if im correct i can keep the airco then) - fmic If i understand correctly, the fmic has longer piping meaning a bit more lag compared to the stock located intercooler. Is that correct? Also icant imaginethat mounting a fmic is just as easy as replacing the stock intercooler. Do i need to male any mods/cuts to my car and/or bumper to mount it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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