jschaefer7406 Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Hello all, My '00 S70 AWD has an ongoing idle surge that is now occurring @ part throttle as well. Cannot be seen on the tach, but pretty obvious on the boost gauge: Now, before everyone starts to blame the ETM, let me say that it's already been replaced. Was done just over a month ago (genuine Volvo unit, also happened with a good used unit I had run for a bit before going new). So, has done this with at least 2 different ETM's (all had new gaskets, etc). Have also swapped out the MAF with a used unit, no change at all. I have visually inspected for vacuum leaks, but have no way to pressurize or smoke test. Not ruling out a vacuum leak, but vacuum is very high also (22" or so warm idle in park, 27" or so on full decel). All usual hoses are replaced with silicone (CBV and TCV hoses). No DTC's either, and ME7 is usually pretty finicky about vacuum leaks throwing fuel trim codes. This seemingly began when the original ETM started to die and the good used unit was swapped in (original ETM had intermittent throttle response and limp mode, no idle problems whatsoever). Also replaced the B+ cable (battery-to-fusebox) that weekend, but that's all. Nothing in there that could have been disturbed to cause this. At first was mostly noticable @ warm idle in park/neutral (not cold or @ throttle). Now is noticable under low-load throttle, like in a parking lot or on the highway with the cruise set. Can actually feel a slight surge in the car, as well as seeing it on the boost gauge... Not sure what else to try . Would a failing front O2 cause this? Thanks, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_gooseglt Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 I feel ur pain... I have a 00r that developed this surging at idle about a month ago. Funny thing is that while it does it occasionally in park and neutral, 95% of the time it does it while in drive or reverse. I hate to say it but this symptom started all when I installed my ARD Blue tune flashed ecu. I had thought maybe the ecu had to relearn its adaptives etc. but its been reset multiple times and taken through the idle relearn multiple as well. Then I started replacing stuff. Things ive done in pursuit of this issue... -checked for vacuum leaks w carb spray & pvc boost leak tester -new xemodex etm -new pcv plumbing -new maf -cbv diaphragm -new fat ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD b+ cable -all wiring to etm checked and good as per xemodex flow chart Again its a rhythmic 800-900 rpm surging that happens at idle mostly while in reverse or drive. I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out what is going on and sending back my tune is not what I want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschaefer7406 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Thanks for the reply Mine was tuned back in December 2009 (WothRline) and I've never had any trouble with it. Idle has always beed rock-steady until the ETM thing started . I need to do the carb cleaner test soon as well, but as I said above, I'd imagine there'd be a fuel trim code set if there was a leak present. Not saying it'd hurt to rule it out . If the ETM wasn't new, I would say it sure does act like an ETM problem. As for the RPM, mine doesn't change. The vacuum oscillates on the gauge (as seen in the video), and can be ever so slightly heard in the idle. It is not enough to move the tach though, as it's solidly planted @ 850-900 where it should be. If it were just the idle oscillation, I could live with it if I HAD to. Don't want to, as I'm the kind of obsessive guy that is driven NUTS by a fluctuating gauge, especially when I know it wasn't like that before and/or isn't normal. What I CAN'T live with though is the surging @ throttle . Seems many have had issues with ARD tunes lately. May be just coincidence, dunno... Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_gooseglt Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km1_B2mXx2o&feature=youtube_gdata_player Just took this video...after moving my battery back to the engine compartment. Voltages were good but it was the only thing that had been changed prior to the ecu flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschaefer7406 Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Just to update, I did a few quick checks this A.M. Didn't have enough carb cleaner here to really spray a lot of connections, but did what I could (thought I had a full can, but it was nearly empty). What I was able to do is pinch off each vacuum hose @ the manifold and check for idle variations that way (individually pinched off large hose to brake booster, small hose to canister purge valve, small hose to CBV, hose @ throttle pipe). Unfortunately, no hose made any difference in the idle surge . Was wondering if maybe the canister purge solenoid was sticking, causing a leak. Would think that would be out of the equation though once the connection to the manifold was pinched shut... Front O2 is my only other idea, but I have no DTC's and I'm not sure if a failing O2 would cause this or not. Anyone? Thanks, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeaBox Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I've been having a similar issue on my '99 S70 that I've been trying to trace. In the process of putting everything back together after cleaning the ETM (which to my disappointment was already clean when I got to it) I must've forgotten to plug the electrical connection to the evap purge valve solenoid back in completely. Driving around it seemed like my symptoms had stopped but I wasn't sure because it was always an intermittent thing. After driving a few miles I got the check engine for the unplugged purge valve and quickly plugged that in and it seemed like the symptoms came back. Not saying that it is the culprit because I don't know enough about it and just the evap system in general to determine whether if affects any of the related symptoms. You could always give it a try though, especially since you have a known good ETM. Aside from that I'd check the wiring to the ETM ground because when I was in there I noticed the bolt for the ground was fairly rusty so I tried to clean things up the best I could. The ground is on the front of the engine block just to the left and maybe a tad bit above the starter bracket. If symptoms get worse with the engine bay warmed up I'd start looking at electrical connections because resistance in the wires increases as they get hot. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_gooseglt Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Think I'm gonna try and replace my intake manifold gasket just so I can rule that out. Next I guess I'm gonna look I to replacing the front o2. I'm not getting any CELs except for my evap purge which is on order but never affected it prior to the reflash. In the last week or so its developed into a surging and sometimes sputttering then stalling out after a cold start. Maybe you'll fix yours first pointing me in the right direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschaefer7406 Posted December 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Maybe you'll fix yours first pointing me in the right direction... I wish . I questioned my intake gasket, as it makes sense with the surging. Has never been disturbed though. Not saying it COULDN'T suddenly start to leak one day, just not sure how likely. Cheap enough to rule out I guess . I'm leaning toward trying a front O2 as well. Was thinking of sourcing a used one just to try, but may just go new. If it doesn't fix it, I can always install the old one on the Wife's XC and hopefully be rid of that pesky catalyst efficiency code . Thanks, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeaBox Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Grey goose, have you looked at your engine mounts, especially the top mount that attaches to the firewall? I recently replaced mine and smoothed out a few of the issues I was having with surging on take off. If it is something like a mount then it explains why it would be doing it in reverse and drive but not in neutral. Try checking the transmission torque mount as well. Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_gooseglt Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I've got poly and delrin torque mounts from ipd but the little tiny bushing on the firewall is stock. Also I had the tranny mount out not too long ago for the b4 servo update install and it didnt appear to be torn. Started getting a P0422 code so from what I've read it could mean multiple things. But I haven't done much reading on it and I didn't get around to pulling the intake manifold last weekend. How about you Joe? Had any break throughs w yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschaefer7406 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Grey_gooseglt" data-cid="2186520" data-time="1355380186"><p>How about you Joe? Had any break throughs w yours?</p></blockquote> No, unfortunately not . Haven't really been messing with it, just been driving it. Runs great for the most part, more of an annoyance than anything... Going to run some Techron though it this weekend. Doubt it's just a dirty injector, but it's due anyway and it's one more thing to rule out I guess. Mine is such a minute surge that I wouldn't suspect mounts, etc. Not only that, but it happens while idling in park/neutral. Keep me posted, hopefully we'll figure something out together Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_gooseglt Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Figured out what my idle was...swapped tuned ecu out for factory tune ecu. Tada! Miss that top end though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWoo601 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 A buddy of mine was having a simmular problem. We put some new spark plug wires on and the surge and loss of power he was getting went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschaefer7406 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Hmmmm...can't remember if mine surged when I had swapped back to stock or not. Think it did, but not 100%... Have a cloned ECM here to try, just a pain to switch back and forth a lot without the removal tool Glad you sorted it out, stinks about the tune though . Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEU Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I've had good success with a hacksaw blade, screwdriver and needle nose pliers when I removed my ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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