Tightmopedman9 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Just use the image button on the top toolbar of the post. Make sure your link is direct to a .jpeg or other image format and you'll be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 @Hussien, you provided your ignition map with the disclaimer that it was a map for a 3" MAF. Why does that matter for ignition timing? When changing to a 3" MAF aren't you scaling just the VE map? No, you have to move the Fuel, Ign & Boost (if you use it) Maps up 30-40% (I.E.100% load is now in the 70% area) Percentage depends on new ID, and % difference between that and stock MAF housing ID. Depending on the CFM's you're pushing, you will still hit 100% values on the maps (I do with the 6262). Use MAP TRACE to see what cells you hit under high load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Here is a screen shot of timing and accompanying videos, first light cruising, second heavy throttle. As you can see I have to back off pretty quick because of the high EGT readings. The red area is where the problem seems to be occurring, If someone can tell me how to embed video and pictures it will make this a little easier. The photobucket embedding code is obviously not working. Someone please share the mystery of new embedding syntax since everything I have searched about embedding on forums doesn't seem to work on VS anymore. Leave MAP TRACE RECORD on, then you can see what timing cells are actually being used, like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I would suggest "copying" Hussein's map up to the relevant rpm points. You have a bit too much advance below 6000 and imo not enough above. I like 16-17 at 6000 and 20-22 at 6600+ for the 100% load cells. Also, the entire column should not be the same value, it should be like Hussein's map where the timing goes up when the load drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 PM me & give me your email & I can give you one of my older tunes to try - maybe the 355WHP one from Carlisle. You can import the fuel WOT & IGN maps into a base ME4.3 tune, so you won't have problems there. You'll have to run calibration wizard also, since I have been using either 550 or 650 injectors for quite some time. Scaling will be a little off, since I haven't run a stock MAF housing in years, but it will still work overall. The timing map looks pretty crappy as JC pointed out. Whatever I share will need tweaking for your setup. I can't give you a more recent one as there are too many hardware revisions to my setup. Raise your rev limit to 7600 & rescale your rpm points. You don't need so many down low, and you do need more closer together up top, especially in the peak torque area (wherever that falls for your setup) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Über855R Posted February 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 No, you have to move the Fuel, Ign & Boost (if you use it) Maps up 30-40% (I.E.100% load is now in the 70% area) Percentage depends on new ID, and % difference between that and stock MAF housing ID. Depending on the CFM's you're pushing, you will still hit 100% values on the maps (I do with the 6262). Use MAP TRACE to see what cells you hit under high load. Let me see if I got this right. With the LARGER MAF you move the place that you read load up 30-40%? So my 30 you read as 60 for the load values? How do turn on the map trace? Mine just jumps a little yellow box around real time but I haven't found how to keep it yellow post run. (newb)I would suggest "copying" Hussein's map up to the relevant rpm points. You have a bit too much advance below 6000 and imo not enough above. I like 16-17 at 6000 and 20-22 at 6600+ for the 100% load cells. Also, the entire column should not be the same value, it should be like Hussein's map where the timing goes up when the load drops. Alright, I'm trying that out. I made a similarly scaled timing map based on Hussein's map and moved things up in the load department and over to hopefully accommodate the earlier boost. Then pulled a few degrees over all to account for the higher compression. Things are starting to make a little more sense. Now if my logging gets worked out I'm set to start working on this correctly, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Let me see if I got this right. With the LARGER MAF you move the place that you read load up 30-40%? So my 30 you read as 60 for the load values? How do turn on the map trace? Mine just jumps a little yellow box around real time but I haven't found how to keep it yellow post run. (newb) Alright, I'm trying that out. I made a similarly scaled timing map based on Hussein's map and moved things up in the load department and over to hopefully accommodate the earlier boost. Then pulled a few degrees over all to account for the higher compression. Things are starting to make a little more sense. Now if my logging gets worked out I'm set to start working on this correctly, In your example, with the larger maf HOUSING (MAF doesn't change), your 60%load moves to 30%load, not the other way round. Map Trace Record; with Map Trace active, hit RETURN and it will continue to highlight the cells used. Hit RETURN again to freeze (I hit print screen at this moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Über855R Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 In your example, with the larger maf HOUSING (MAF doesn't change), your 60%load moves to 30%load, not the other way round. Map Trace Record; with Map Trace active, hit RETURN and it will continue to highlight the cells used. Hit RETURN again to freeze (I hit print screen at this moment). That is really going to make things easier, thanks again. Sounds like I had it backwards. Maybe I should take another stab at a Hussein timing imitation. I tried my custom Hussein wannabe map. Didn't work out as well as I had hoped. Then I basically got frustrated and just loaded the tuned example that comes with TT. After calibrating, pulling a little fuel here and there, and scaling the boost down considerably I hit the gas, and jumped to about 15 psi feeling really strong. I could feel a little detonation and got out of it immediately, but I finally got my first taste of fast in this thing. I'm hoping pulling a little timing will take care of that tomorrow and I will be able to play around for a while at this level. I'm still having the EGT values climbing if I gas for very long. But with AFR looking good and not having any noticeable power loses or hesitation it seems like timing is at least somewhat acceptable. So I am wondering if my EGT could just be reading hot all the time and worrying me for nothing. I know placement is supposed to be critical and people have had less than wonderful success with EGT readings on log manifolds. I'm wondering if this is a possibility to explain my relentless EGT spikes? It seems like no matter what I do the EGT just climbs if I give any sustained throttle. Thoughts? Suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Über855R Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Could the high EGT be a symptom of the cams opening the exhaust valve too early? Meaning I need to mechanically adjust the exhaust cam to lower the EGT? No electronic changes seem to make a difference. Zappo is probably thinking, "didn't I say that two days ago?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Where is your EGT probe? I remember seeing that your manifold was tapped for each runner. Check your EGT temperature before starting your car in the morning, see if the value is reading the correct temperature (it should just be the same temperature as on your dash). If you have overlap it can increase your EGTs. If you think this is the case advance the exhaust cam a degree or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Über855R Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 PM me & give me your email & I can give you one of my older tunes to try - maybe the 355WHP one from Carlisle. You can import the fuel WOT & IGN maps into a base ME4.3 tune, so you won't have problems there. You'll have to run calibration wizard also, since I have been using either 550 or 650 injectors for quite some time. Scaling will be a little off, since I haven't run a stock MAF housing in years, but it will still work overall. The timing map looks pretty crappy as JC pointed out. Whatever I share will need tweaking for your setup. I can't give you a more recent one as there are too many hardware revisions to my setup. Raise your rev limit to 7600 & rescale your rpm points. You don't need so many down low, and you do need more closer together up top, especially in the peak torque area (wherever that falls for your setup) Thanks for sending me that one. At this point I am starting to get a feel for how these maps look, it's nice to compare different setups and see the differences in the layout of the map. I also was looking around and found another map for 91 octane that looks similar to the one I tried last night but a little more advance across the board. Also, I'm fairly certain what sounded like detonation last night was actually fuel cut because of the MAF limiters. So I turned those all the way up and plan to try this map again today. Albeit with much lower boost levels in the boost table. It's so cool how changing boost is so easy is the TT program, goodbye MBC. @Moped: that is a good idea, calibrate the temp based on cold temp. Although I am not certain the gauge reads down that low in temp, will check when I get out err here today. The probe is in the spacer between the manifold and the turbo. Reads around 400 on initial startup, 8-900 at idle and 1200 at light cruising. Does this seem to fall in line with other peoples EGT readings for similar situations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 My initial EGT calibration was off by 50C (122F). Initially I thought I was going into the danger zone all the time, but after a correct calibration I rarely hit anything north of 870C (1600F). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb5 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Ben, can we get some updated pics of your car with the new engine in? My initial EGT calibration was off by 50C (122F). Initially I thought I was going into the danger zone all the time, but after a correct calibration I rarely hit anything north of 870C (1600F). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 The probe is in the spacer between the manifold and the turbo. Reads around 400 on initial startup, 8-900 at idle and 1200 at light cruising. Does this seem to fall in line with other peoples EGT readings for similar situations? Seems in keeping with what I see. My probe is in the collector by the #4 runner. Doing it over, I would put it closer to the head. In the collector, or where you have yours, the recorded temps are likely to be higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Über855R Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Seems in keeping with what I see. My probe is in the collector by the #4 runner. Doing it over, I would put it closer to the head. In the collector, or where you have yours, the recorded temps are likely to be higher. [img=http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/huseinholland/CarMods/PTE6262%20BB%20Install/IMG_0550.jpg] When you are on part throttle for a few seconds does the temp move up to 1400 or if you are on it for any length of time? That seems to be what I am seeing and wondering if it is just the placement making it read hot or if I should be worried. I'm not getting good pulls in for tuning because I keep backing off due to EGT spikes. Maybe I should move the probe to the far cylinder near the exhaust port on the head. I have holes all over this manifold so I can basically put it anywhere with a little work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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