Zappo Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Fixed links. Looks like the maps could use more refining. Not sure why there is so little timing in some areas. Fuel map usually you want a little more fuel in the peak (mid range) areas. Transitions can be smoothed better - I wouldn't have the same values from 6-35% looks a lot like my fuel map, although his is a lot smoother than mine. Also, for having the same size injectors, his numbers are WAY above mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn_B Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Holy, that really looks like you are pushing the greens according to your values. Anyways, I recognize very well what you mean by having to learn how the TT system works. I have just finished my build and am using a T3/04E 60 trim turbo. As for your timing: 88%-100% timing up to 5600 seems to be set pretty low at 11. I have my own troubles at this moment: calibration at 14,7 will give me a very rich cruising AFR (11,3). Furthermore, I spent 2 hours on a map and finally had it running OK. Then turned off the ignition and parked the car for 15 mins. When restarting all of a sudden the whole AFR was f*cked up, running way too lean (everywhere). As I work in Malmö and Copenhagen now, I am only back in the weekend to make adjustments. So will rewrite my map on this saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Martijn - are you still using Siemens injectors? I'd get rid of them for Bosch. I could not ever get proper stable AFR with Siemens injectors; just wouldn't work. Don't see how ME4.3 would be that different in terms of stability with non-Bosch injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappo Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I had the same problem with the Siemens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightmopedman9 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 From my limited experience with TT, it makes sense that it would cause inconsistent results. The TT system is essentially an EEPROM simulator with a nice GUI. Only the most basic maps are available for changing. If you look at a stock M4.4 binary file there are many more maps that relate to timing, fuel and boost then are shown in TT. Without access to all pertinent maps you can never really get excellent results; the ECU will still do things that you wouldn't expect, simply because you aren't seeing the whole picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn_B Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I am using the Siemens on ME4.3. What I cant find out is: Why did the Siemens work for a year with the K24, and not with the 60 trim. Only difference is more CFM and a 3' MAF housing. With the K24, AFR was pretty much spot on, winter or summer, after a lap on the Nurburgring or 2 hours of traffic jam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCviggen Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I am using the Siemens on ME4.3. What I cant find out is: Why did the Siemens work for a year with the K24, and not with the 60 trim. Only difference is more CFM and a 3' MAF housing. The 3" MAF is what matters here. Using one means reducing the resolution of the fuel map and small adjustments have a larger impact. That's why it is harder to get it spot on when you start messing with MAF diameter. Some injectors are more suited than others when you have to aim for a smaller target. That said, I used a 3" MAF with Siemens 630s on M4.3 and it worked pretty well. The only inconsistency was that after storing the car for a while off battery the ECU would have to re-learn the fuel trims and it didn't always come up with the same result. But my o2 sensor wasn't a spring chicken either back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn_B Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thanks Jan. Ill go and burn another fuel tank tomorrow, see if I can make it work properly. If not, i will ditch the Siemens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Über855R Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Fixed links. Looks like the maps could use more refining. Not sure why there is so little timing in some areas. Fuel map usually you want a little more fuel in the peak (mid range) areas. Transitions can be smoothed better - I wouldn't have the same values from 6-35% They definitely could use some more refining. Last night I finally had some help and was able to dial in most of my fuel table. The values from ~18-35% got shifted a bit to make a smoother transition. The timing will need some work but I think I have a plan how to start working on timing values once my AFR's are totally ironed out. looks a lot like my fuel map, although his is a lot smoother than mine. Also, for having the same size injectors, his numbers are WAY above mine. Someon please educate me if I'm wrong here, I think the fuel numbers are essentially an arbitrary scaling number, so if you shift the table up or down via fuel calibration the numbers are basically just reference points to scale fuel trim up or down based on a perceived starting point. I have been going out and making adjustments, then when I come home I smooth out the maps via the 2D graphs making a point to make all the curves have nice transitions and no weird humps or valleys. It seems when I make adjustments things get changed where there is a problem but not around those points, so the smoothing is my way of ironing out those inconsistencies. On an unrelated note, I had the pleasant morning wake up call of my keyfob beeping to let me know my neighbor backed into my car. (nice way to wake up) Let me bounce some ideas I'm mulling over about using TT to see if any of you have input. Since this is essentially a Motronic computer where we can scale the values that it wants to see aren't we esentially reflashing the computer every time we make a change? On that note would it be appropriate to start fresh when you make changes by disconnecting the ecu and reinstalling so it will relearn each new change? Attempting to see the changes are not just corrections by Motronic. Also, similarly with the TCV should it be going through the initializing procedure every time you make a change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappo Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 You are flashing the computer, but you aren't clearing the learned data, just altering a table or two. As for the fuel table, I would assume since we have the same injectors, same turbo, etc., that the numbers would be closer, but this isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I wouldn't unplug the ECU. Major changes may take the adaptive a little while to adjust to, but my experience is that changes after each & every reflash take immediate effect. On long drives, I would get the mrs to make adjustments to various mid load areas, using Map Trace to monitor & then adjust specific areas. The effect ( whether good or bad) was immediate. If reflashing on the go, it works better if you keep a steady light load while the flash is taking place, if you vary the load/throttle it just takes longer to complete the reflash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappo Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I have only ever flashed at idle. I can't really use the trace myself because I am tuning by myself, so I can't see what is displaying on the screen. I have been tuning again over the past few days because of Ben, although it is only for the weekend. I have 630cc injectors going in next week and I get to retune for that. Luckily I had 630s in their before, so I will start with that tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookforjoe Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Yeah - its infectious isnt it? :-) Now that my cold start misfire CEL and lean upper load (due to stock pump) issues are resolved, I'm also in the mood for some tweaking. Did a couple of data logs today, nothing too crazy since I'm running on 4 snows. Temps were very moderate - low 50's! And pavement was dry. After I look at them a bit, I'll make some adjustments. Only running 1.4bar. Not going to go nuts until I have the VEMS switched over, and additional pump/larger fuel lines installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Über855R Posted February 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I finally recieved my books on engine tuning. I almost finished one tonight and will try to finish tomorrow and hopefully have notes and questions by Monday. One question I have now is this: can we trick our ecu into staying in open loop mode? Greg Banish the author of Engine Mangment Advanced Tuning recommends this procedure to tune base maps to avoid ecu adjustments based on narrow band o2 readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitroX5 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Unplug the narrowband signal then, you will get cel but no limp home mode. I'm running this way to tune my maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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