'97 850R Estate Restoration and M66D Swap (2.0)

[VolvoNor]

Just an opinion, for a daily driver that is supposed to have good mileage, I would actually go with the B5252S. My old '94 850 did 6l/100km mixed driving (39.2mpg). These engines make a hell of a lot of torque in the lower register and could be improved with some mods. 

These are the ratios for the EA31 if you'd like to compare. 

Ratios: M66EA31

First: 3.750:1

Second: 1.905:1

Third: 1.194:1

Fourth: 0.838:1

Fifth: 0.652:1

Sixth: 0.540:1

Reverse: 3.397:1

Rev. final  4.941:1

Final: 4.00:1

[andyb5]

That clutch setup won't work for a few reasons.  

1) The 850 R clutch disc has the wrong spline pattern/count and won't fit the M66.  

2) The S60 R flywheel is a dual mass flywheel and can only be used with a dual mass clutch/pressure plate.  The 850 R clutch/PP is a single mass setup.

So if you want to use the S60 R dual mass flywheel, you'll have to buy a clutch/pressure plate combo that is intended for the S60 R.  

Alternatively, if you want a single mass flywheel (sounds like you don't want/need one) you'd need to find a SMF from an 850, use a Sachs SD693 (or equivalent 23x1 spline clutch) and the 850 R pressure plate.  That is the route I choose to pursue for my M66 swap. 

[JaredR1]

I just went back and looked at the threads I was looking at about clutches again.....I think I may have misread what some of the people were doing with with mixing and matching S60R and 850R clutch parts.  But I do think that, whatever setup I end up with, a dual mass flywheel is the way to go for my use.

 

Just an opinion, for a daily driver that is supposed to have good mileage, I would actually go with the B5252S. My old '94 850 did 6l/100km mixed driving (39.2mpg). These engines make a hell of a lot of torque in the lower register and could be improved with some mods. 

These are the ratios for the EA31 if you'd like to compare. 

Ratios: M66EA31

First: 3.750:1

Second: 1.905:1

Third: 1.194:1

Fourth: 0.838:1

Fifth: 0.652:1

Sixth: 0.540:1

Reverse: 3.397:1

Rev. final  4.941:1

Final: 4.00:1

​Wow, I had no idea how good the 10V engine's fuel economy was.  We didn't get that engine here, though, and the EPA would throw a fit if I tried to bring an engine in.

The M66EA31 looks largely the same as the M66D:

1: 3.385
2: 1.905
3: 1.194
4: 0.868
5: 0.652
6: 0.540

Some had 4.00 or 3.77 final drive.  Don't know for sure which one the one I'm getting has, but for some reason I suspect it's the 4.00.

 

Only thing that would be better would be an M66F, but I'm pretty sure that's for the P3 cars and has reverse off to the left side of the shift pattern so I have no idea if it would bolt up to a P80 car or not:

Gear Ratios
1: 3.583
2: 2.050
3: 1.267
4: 0.838
5: 0.617
6: 0.510

3.77 FDR.

Edited June 12, 2015 by JaredR1

[JaredR1]

I'm finally back to work on this project, and the recent progress has been very encouraging.  The engine is seized, but, after pulling the head, I was not able to identify any other issues with the engine beyond the head gasket.  The new plan is to pull the oil pan to get access to the crankshaft, disconnect the connecting rods, and try to free up the engine one cylinder at a time.  I may also send the oil out to be analyzed.  If all goes well with that and I find no additional problems with the engine, I probably will keep this engine block in there and then drop the transmission out the bottom after I get it running.

I've also decided to upgrade to a Japanifold and 16t.  If I use a 16t with an angle flange, are there any downpipe options that will connect to a stock exhaust?  My T-5R came with an IPD exhaust which I dislike, so I want to keep the stock, drone-free exhaust, but wouldn't mind eliminating flow issues in the downpipe.

Also thinking about putting on a RN head since I already have the head off.  I would also probably go with a Beüst COP conversion if I did this.  My understanding is that the early VVT doesn't do much, so would a newer dual VVT or CVVT head work on a N block?  How big a nightmare is it to get the VVT/CVVT going and what kind of power and fuel economy gains would I be looking at with that upgrade?

Edited April 15, 2016 by JaredR1

[lookforjoe]

Have you freed the bottom end? No point looking at head options if you need a motor. HG doesn't seize the piston rings, unless it was left sitting with coolant/water for extended period. Fill the bores with trans fluid & let it sit - try then to rock the crank back and forth gently - if you are very lucky it will come free & you can then inspect the full bores for wear.

Plenty of threads covering the use of RN heads in N motors, so do a search & post back with specific intelligent questions if indeed there are any after reading up.

 

[JaredR1]

I suspect that the car was sitting for quite a while before I got the it, and that this is exactly the problem.

I did find a bunch of those threads after I posted.  Didn't find much on getting the dual VVT going, but there's not much point in looking into that if there isn't anyone who can tune for it.

Edited April 18, 2016 by JaredR1

[lookforjoe]

M4.x has no provision for controlling VVT, never mind tuning for it. You can check in the Tuners Rejoice thread to see if anyone is working on that. 

[JaredR1]

The last discussion of VVT that I found on the Tuners Rejoice thread was way back on page 304, but the tune builder on the Beüst website has an option for VVT control.  I think I need to send him an email and find out what the story is with that.

[lookforjoe]

17 hours ago, JaredR1 said:

The last discussion of VVT that I found on the Tuners Rejoice thread was way back on page 304, but the tune builder on the Beüst website has an option for VVT control.  I think I need to send him an email and find out what the story is with that.

If anyone can do it, it would be Aaron or Piet / Venderbroeck. They have pioneered much of the refinements that have moved M4.4 tuning on non-stock setups forward.

[Tightmopedman9]

Basic cam control is possible, send me an email and I'll tell you about it.

[JaredR1]

3 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said:

Basic cam control is possible, send me an email and I'll tell you about it.

Cool.  I sent you a message through the contact form on your website yesterday but I'll PM you in case that didn't go through.

[JaredR1]

I've been looking into my engine options some more and and am wondering if there is any reason why I wouldn't want to just put the 147mm rods and lighter crank and pistons out of an 02+ engine into my N block.  If I did that, added the windows in the crankcase and put a RN head on it, wouldn't I have all the benefits of a RN swap?  Am I missing anything here?  It seems like this might be a more cost effective route for me to take given that I will already have this engine apart.

[JaredR1]

UPDATE!  So I finally got it running, at least for now.  Did a complete subframe swap with the wrecked R because we needed to get the driveway back as deferred maintenance is starting to stack up on the other cars.

Next move is to build the final setup on the original subframe.  Going to get a B5254T2 (or I'd also consider a B5244T4 if a nice one came along at a nice price) and match it up with either a 16T (more likely) or a K24.

 

Here's the progress from the last few months:

 

May 30: Engine removal

 

June 3: Trying to wrap my head around what I need to do for my VVT controller.  Talking to my circuit theory professor after this yielded some very good ideas.  More to come on that.  Goal is fully functional CVVT with M4.4.

 

June 4:  Removed the engine from the wrecked R.  It was absolutely covered in oil and dirt pretty much everywhere; there must have been a massive oil leak somewhere in the engine bay at some point, although there has been no evidence of any active oil leaks for the time we've had it.  I suspect that one of the transmission cooler lines may have been leaking (note the jerry-rigged transmission cooler lines and yes I got rid of those and the jerry-rigged oil cooler lines) and then driven on plenty of dirt roads.

The most shocking part was that the turbo has absolutely no play!  There were major boost leaks in several locations (someone tried to patch a huge hole in one of the intake hoses with hot melt (LOL) among other leaks), which appears to have been the reason there was no boost and that the engine was running horribly rich (15 mpg average highway) and severely down on power.  Luckily we had enough intake piping to make one complete good set and the results over the first 31 miles have been good; 20 mpg and the boost gauge does make it into the white region.

OIL EVERYWHERE!

Starting to get better......sort of.  That's about a half a coffee can worth of oil and dirt on the ground already.

 

June 5: Scored this original EU spec 850R wheel on ebay.

 

June 12: New engine goes in.

Attempt at broken bolt removal.  This was not particularly successful so we used the other manifold.  Yes, I tried to take that screw out holding in that vacuum tree before I knew what I was doing.

3

Looks complete, but, uh oh, what is that bucket doing down there?

The heater core firewall junction broke...........not cool.

 

Started on the first try!!!

<a data-flickr-embed="true"  href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/67521339@N05/27563682041/" title="First Start"><img src="https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7293/27563682041_81b9108091_o.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="First Start"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

The vibration noted is not an issue; the caliper was vibrating against the spring.  The front calipers were still tied up to the springs as the brake discs needed to be replaced.

The only issue was that the up arrow is flashing.  It started doing this in the wrecked car after it had been sitting for about 7 or 8 months and I assumed that it was either the contacts going bad in the PNP switch from it sitting or a result of any of the other insane electrical problems that started after it got hit (that car was literally like Clarkson's Porsche 928 after it got hit), but, surprisingly, the issue has come along to the new car.  The trans was fine last time that car was driven, so this seems a bit odd.  It felt fine and seemed to be starting in first gear a few weeks ago when I slightly re-positioned the wrecked car in the driveway.

 

June 13:

Did a ghetto heater core bypass with some extra coolant hose and hose clamps from the blown engine....I wasn't feeling the $50 for a new one from FCP once I discovered that there is one of those "sick Volvospeed mods" for this, but luckily I have plenty of time to contemplate this over the next few months of not wanting heat.

After that, it was time for a more extended run.  The infamous up arrow didn't come on this time (or during any of the subsequent runs, but this was discovered.
<a data-flickr-embed="true"  href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/67521339@N05/27046100494/in/photostream/" title="CAM00853"><img src="https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7400/27046100494_91b699da1c_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="CAM00853"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Oops.  That's one of the red wires that goes to the starter.  Pretty much all the warning lights for that side of the car were on (alternator not charging, low coolant, low washer fluid.....)  Not sure how that got missed.

Fixed that, then started it again, threw a CEL, got a TPS code, unplugged that and plugged it back in, deleted the code, code didn't come back so all seems well there. NO WARNING LIGHTS!
<a data-flickr-embed="true"  href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/67521339@N05/27379397060/in/photostream/" title="IMG_8839"><img src="https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7387/27379397060_82b1ddf6da_h.jpg" width="1600" height="1067" alt="IMG_8839"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Uh oh, why is it getting so hot?  This was the only problem..........the fan was not going on.  I shut it off right after I took this picture.  The engine was clearly hotter than normal and the fan definitely should have been on so this is not the temperature gauge malfunctioning.

Turned the brakes!  The new 280s that were headed for this car have been reallocated to the '99 V70 since I decided to put 302s on this car, but I'm not ready to mount the 302s yet for a variety of reasons, so these will do fine for now.  The 302s most likely will not go on this car until the original subframe goes back in with the RN engine and M66D.

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Just need to put the wheels back on now........and figure out what is going on with the fan.....

 

June 20: VICTORY!

<a data-flickr-embed="true"  href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/67521339@N05/27507264010/in/photostream/" title="IMG_8852"><img src="https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7626/27507264010_0640b13bab_h.jpg" width="1600" height="1067" alt="IMG_8852"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well, sort of.  There is something clunking in the front end and there are already new control arms in there so that's not it.  Going to check the steering knuckles next.  But we have just under 1½ hours of run time and about 30 miles so far and NO DTCs!

 

July 2: 

Finally got started on the paint today after washing it yesterday.  

Looking pretty oxidized after the clay:

Worked over the entire car with Meguiar's #7.  If this stuff works the magic that some people claim, I'll be pretty thrilled with only losing this much paint to the oxidation.  I probably lost this much on each panel on the first 850R when I polished it with abrasive polish.

Waiting for the #7 to work its magic.  For those of you who have used this stuff, yes, what I am doing here violates absolutely everything the instructions on the bottle say.

Initial results are looking promising.  It will be very interesting to see how things look tomorrow when I wipe the #7 off after letting it sit overnight.  What better way to listen to Garrison Keillor's last Prairie Home Companion than almost running the battery flat by listening outside on the car radio while you make your car look like new again?

 

July 3: 

Looking very pink this morning after letting the Meguiar's #7 sit all night.

IMG_8953 by Jared R 945, on Flickr

I do not recommend letting this stuff bake on in the sun.  It was kind of a pain to get this stuff off on the panels that saw the most sun.  Luckily #7 is fairly water soluble, so I was able to take care of this problem pretty quickly once I realized that it                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              was my only decent option.  I should have gotten out here at like 6 AM, not noon.

This is after I got it all wiped off.  The small oxidized area was intentionally left untreated so I had a control area to compare to.

IMG_8960 by Jared R 945, on Flickr

At this point, I rubbed the entire car down with the #7 again, but this time I wiped it off before it dried.  Finished off by waxing it.

IMG_8965 by Jared R 945, on Flickr

IMG_8966 by Jared R 945, on Flickr

Hey, that looks pretty good!  It isn't perfect, but I think it is good enough for as long as this car is still living outside; this is probably where I will stop until I have indoor storage for it.  It looks really good if you are more than a yard or two from the car.  Any closer, and you can see the scratches and other imperfections that the non-abrasive nature of this technique is not able to do anything about.  I forgot to take a picture of the control area after the second application and wax, so I'll do that tomorrow.  Overall, I'm really impressed with how well this came out with so little paint loss.

 

July 4: 

Here are the promised photos of my control surface:

Here are some of the artifacts that the non-abrasive nature of this technique can't do anything about:

But it still probably looks like a new car to the average non-enthusiast observer.  Not too shabby for a $1,600 car!

Edited July 4, 2016 by JaredR1

[JaredR1]

Installed my original UN market 850R wheel with 9 series airbag this afternoon....

.....and did the euro foglight mod.

[Brad850]

Looking great! Once you work on that trim it will look amazing.

Jared, you should just send me that fender instead