woah4 Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Hey everyone, If this is in the wrong forum please let me know, but I am asking this question based on "performance" which is why I put it here. I have a 2005 V70 AWD with Haldex, and a 2001 V70XC with viscous Coupling awd. My 2005 has a bad DEM, caused by a bad pump which I'm assuming was likely caused by a plugged filter over time. I can fix my haldex obviously, but to the tune of around $700 to do it properly through Xemodex. My 01 has perfectly functioning awd, but is pretty much scrap otherwise. From my research on VIDA, (between a 2001 V70XC and 2005 XC70) the only component that is different in the awd drivetrain is the differential itself, the subframe, axles, and driveshaft all show as the same part numbers. Can anyone confirm this? Would it be possible for me to swap the VC rear diff into my 2005 to have functioning AWD, albeit not haldex? I already have a DTSC service message that comes up due to the bad DEM and I know that obviously would be permanent, but if the awd worked again at little to no cost to me I wouldn't mind putting up with it. I realize that the VC system is picky about tire sizing compared to haldex, but for people with experience with both systems which do you prefer from a performance standpoint? I realize no Volvo awd system is overly strong, but is one weaker than the other? I do have performance plans for this car, and will spend the money on the haldex system if it will truly benefit me, but otherwise I think I will attempt the swap. Any input or suggestions is appreciated, cheers. -Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeacock Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Well, either way a lot has to come apart. Give it a god. I thought all the p2 cars were haldex but older and newer versions. I guess not. The VC style seems to hold up to decent power stock shouldn't be an issue if the right tires are used no? Maybe you can jumper the wires from the DTSC system in the back and place a resistor inline to make it think it's doing it's job. Though it might not be that simple. If anything give the basic components a measurement or two before beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woah4 Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 22 minutes ago, apeacock said: Well, either way a lot has to come apart. Give it a god. I thought all the p2 cars were haldex but older and newer versions. I guess not. The VC style seems to hold up to decent power stock shouldn't be an issue if the right tires are used no? Maybe you can jumper the wires from the DTSC system in the back and place a resistor inline to make it think it's doing it's job. Though it might not be that simple. If anything give the basic components a measurement or two before beginning. Yeah I have good tires and I'm always careful about that anyway, so I will give it a shot and see what happens I guess! Fingers crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 hello! the only thing im not sure about the swap is if the 2001 vc system is still using the 3.31 or 2.56 gear ratio? did u check what is says und the VC diff oder BG on the sticker? u might have to change BG aswell if its still the old 3.31 gear ratio apart from that its a 1:1 swap.. my 1st gen VC awd setup did withstand 420hp/550nm - HH´s setup even more.. greetz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woah4 Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, aziz said: hello! the only thing im not sure about the swap is if the 2001 vc system is still using the 3.31 or 2.56 gear ratio? did u check what is says und the VC diff oder BG on the sticker? u might have to change BG aswell if its still the old 3.31 gear ratio apart from that its a 1:1 swap.. my 1st gen VC awd setup did withstand 420hp/550nm - HH´s setup even more.. greetz! Hello thanks for the reply! Well that certainly is reassuring, I will double check the part numbers for the bevel gear but if I remember correctly they were the same. If not, I will just swap that out as well at the same time! Hussein's car is part of the reason I have been thinking VC might not be a bad way to go, the only different factor is that for now my car will be staying automatic, which in theory should be the weak point and be less stressful to the awd system as well. I'll do a little more digging on the part numbers and see what I come up with! It's not an easy job, but the procedure VIDA shows for replacing the rear diff certainly sounds easier than I remember it being on friends P80's I have worked on in the past, according to VIDA there is no reason to even remove the subframe in a P2. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures and keep everyone updated with any progress I make. Cheers -Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 hey! if u only change the VC/haldex that might be doable in situ.. dont look for part numbers... the BG changed quite a few times between 2000-2005 (but vida doesnt mention the ratio afaik) better have a look on the sticker on the rear subframe/diff or BG - it says 3.31 or 2.56 ;) no easier way to find out ;) and please post the ratio up here when u found out greetz! ps: i parted out a bunch of awds - and my impression is that automatic cars awd parts dont wear out as strong as from manuals ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Riker Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 How would the ratio differ in the rear end from year to hear? The collar in the PTO is always the same size. You couldn't have it be different in one year than another, or am I missing something here? EDIT almost right away: Unless the gearing is different in bevel gears from year to year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Commander Riker said: How would the ratio differ in the rear end from year to hear? The collar in the PTO is always the same size. You couldn't have it be different in one year than another, or am I missing something here? EDIT almost right away: Unless the gearing is different in bevel gears from year to year? the old p80 VC awd had a 3.31 ratio.... the haldex awd had 2.56 later 2.57 (IT) i dunno if the changeover p2x VC awd has either the old or new ratio... i guess they might have changed to the never ratio already - beacause the rear diff is more or less the same.. but i never prooved greetz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb5 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 So to be sure the ratios are correct just match the angle gear to the VC/rear diff and you're good to go. The P2 rear subframes are much easier to work on than the P80 rear subframes, that's for sure! Mark (blackt5) has posted some really good photos from when he was rebuilding that crashed up S60 R a year or two ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woah4 Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, andyb5 said: So to be sure the ratios are correct just match the angle gear to the VC/rear diff and you're good to go. The P2 rear subframes are much easier to work on than the P80 rear subframes, that's for sure! Mark (blackt5) has posted some really good photos from when he was rebuilding that crashed up S60 R a year or two ago. Thanks, I'll see if I can find that thread! I'm hoping we get half decent weather and I can get this done, I want to drive it to Carlisle, never been before and think it would be a cool road trip! I have to pull the angle gear out of the XC anyway so I might as well just swap them to be sure everything is as it should be. I guess the only other concern I would have is if the front diff could have different gearing as well to match the rear, but everything I have found has said it should be the same for that transmission across all years. I will hopefully get started on it next weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshV70 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Not sure if you need a new pump or DEM rebuild, but I had my DEM rebuilt by BBA Reman in Mass. for $200. Works great and would prefer to do that than swap for a VC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woah4 Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 48 minutes ago, JoshV70 said: Not sure if you need a new pump or DEM rebuild, but I had my DEM rebuilt by BBA Reman in Mass. for $200. Works great and would prefer to do that than swap for a VC. Appreciate the reply, I need the pump, DEM as well as servicing the unit (filter and fluid) I believe the Pump failed because the filter was plugged from lack of maintenance, causing the DEM to fail. Sadly I found this out the hard way by purchasing another good DEM and having it fry as well, the previous owner said the DEM failed due to internal moisture and that the pump was fine, it was my own fault for not testing the pump before installing the DEM as that was not the case. I am local to Xemodex so they would likely get my business if I went that route, but seeing as I have a complete Perfectly functioning VC parts car I'm going to give the swap a try, it would be nice to utilize as many parts from this car as I can and then cut my losses on it. Do you personally find the haldex performs much better though? I like that it is less finicky about tire sizes and whatnot and fully disengages while not needed, but I'm not sure that it's enough reason for me to spend the money getting it working again. Cheers, Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb5 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 On 3/9/2017 at 10:08 AM, woah4 said: Thanks, I'll see if I can find that thread! I'm hoping we get half decent weather and I can get this done, I want to drive it to Carlisle, never been before and think it would be a cool road trip! I have to pull the angle gear out of the XC anyway so I might as well just swap them to be sure everything is as it should be. I guess the only other concern I would have is if the front diff could have different gearing as well to match the rear, but everything I have found has said it should be the same for that transmission across all years. I will hopefully get started on it next weekend! The front diff sends power to the angle gear at a 1:1 ratio - the collar gear ensures this is the case. Basically, the angle gear sees the same input as the passenger axle. Once power is fed into the angle gear, it is spun at either 3.31 or 2.56/7 depending on the model year. The rear diff ratio matches the ratio in the angle gear to ensure the rear axles are matching the rotation of the front wheels. Carlisle is a fun time for sure - if you can make it I highly suggest it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeacock Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 On 3/9/2017 at 10:08 AM, woah4 said: ...I want to drive it to Carlisle, never been before and think it would be a cool road trip!... Leaving Friday Morning from Buffalo, meeting friends in Rochester. Come along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackT5 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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