Has Anyone Evern Bothered To Try?

[prasamin]

Your not tricking anything just changing the values.

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sorry, you didn't catch my sarcasm man...i was just implying to do it the right way and get a chip...for me that was did the trick....!

[Guest DougK]

Probably wont work. Will be the same as trying to use an AFC, doesn't do stuff over 4k + WOT. But prove us wrong. If were right your out your time, if your right then we all benifit.

[Guest Guest]

well i was figuring since the BCS is controlled by voltage from the ecu as to when to poen or close and how much.  You could delay it with a  resistor... but who knows if it will work or wise up.  NOt to mention how much needed to get what kind of gain and not blow your engine to bits haha.

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very easy. Disconnect the solonoid form the ecu. The ecu will try to compensate and will find it doesn't work and throw a code saying that the boost sensor isn't working. But I do not believe it will cut boost.

an easier way would be to bleed the amount of boost reported to the ecu and compensate the fuel via FPR / S-AFC.

It's as simple as any other car out there.

[zazzn]

You being the new guy on the block why don't you tell us what you know about: Tricking the ECU,  open and closed loop, learning and O2 sensor operation.  When you trick the ECU how do you determine how your trick effects other aspects of programs running.

Why are you Not about ECU upgrades?

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Ok how bout I do.

I may have it backwards because I'm too lazy to look it up to remember but when in open loop or below a specific throttle/load amount the ecu will stay in open loop to obtain the optimum fuel ratio 15.x/14.x for cursing. This will cause your EGT's to skyrocket but this is a good thing. It saves gas and you do not need the fuel at this point because you are not pushing the engine hard.

when in closed loop the ecu doesn't rely on the 02 information at all and instead follows a SAFE preprogrammed map that is written into the ecu by volvo. This map is usually very rich and can be run in any weather condition/alt. What all the chip makers do is modify this map and fudge what they believe everyone should be running. The problem is they spend about 2 hours making a chip 30 minutes of that is dyno time.

Furthermore, the test car may have had a 3" exhaust maybe a 2.75" exhaust ect further fudging the numbers. When Volvo creates the maps all cars are using a 2.5" exhaust that they have provided with their cars. 2.25" intercooler pipes, the same air filter ect.

There is NO way the chipmakers will know what you have on your car. However, nor do they state how they made the chip what conditions, how much exact boost, what the engine condition was before they started the testing. ECT.

Now if you use the piggy back method you are a step ahead of a chip because you can tune your car for YOUR needs. I've seen too many dynos here where people are running 10:1 AF which is absolutely retarded. Not only does your gas mileage suck but it's also dangerous because you start to wash the cylinder walls and create much more smog.

There are many ways to trick the ecu. I'll talk of one way I would do it.

I would use a zener diode to make the voltage form the pressure sensor stay at 4.9 volts if 5.0 volts was fuel cut. (read up on how a zener diode works http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/zener.html ) Now any boost after 4.9 volts means that we are going to have to start to compensate since the stock ECU has stopped and ran out of map at 4.9 volts. You maybe able to add 2-3 pounds more of boost before adding any fuel since the stock ecu runs so rich however anything after that you're looking for trouble.

So what do you do? Grab a fuel pressure regulator and bump up the fuel a little big. Remember all fuel pressure regulators except for RRFPR give 1 PSI of fuel pressure at 1 PSI of boost.

So there you have it, an easy way around. Why hasn't this been done? I don't know. Why haven't I done this yet? I haven't had time especially since this is my daily driver I didn't want to muck around too much yet nor drop 2 grand in exhaust and electronics yet.

No someone still needs to answer my question what determines fuel cut off pressure sensor or hotwire MAF that we have.

[zazzn]

He hasn't listened to rules of thumb in the past and my thoughts and the thoughts of others, so I don't think he's about to start.

Guy: If you're so interested in this stuff, you ought to try some things out for yourself. No one here has shown any interest in these sorts of things through all of your posting about them, I don't think it's changed? You prefaced your post by saying we don't know about it, then proceed to ask us questions about it?

It is *not* the ideal or even close to the ideal solution for more power on our cars. If you want to put in a bigger FPR or something and throw a zener diode or some resistors in some lines and see how it works, let us know how that goes.

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And what exactly are you talking about rule of thumb? No it's not the ideal solution. The ideal solution is a full stand alone but don't be fooled into thinking the stock ECU can't handle a little extra power. Yes the chip is the easy way out but all these dynos of 233 RWHP or less make me a little sketched out about why even bother.

The AF ratios are so darn far out there it's not funny. Not to mention everytime you change anything you need to get a retune for a hefty bill.

[zazzn]

how safe can that be for your car?  with an ECU upgrade everything is taking care of and you will almost never run into a problem

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As safe as the tuner period. How do you think other people with other cars without any ecu tuning tune their cars?

For instance 456 RWHP on the stock ECU when my car came with 232 BHP form the factory (supra) or my buddy thats doing 132MPH trap on stock ecu NO special electronics just a FPR and a custom made air flow meter. (4" pipe with the AFM stuck int he center lol) http://www.7mpower.com/eric_wong.shtml

I'm no stranger to power but I have one money pit already. I'll i'm looking to do to my volvo is BPU (supra terms for basic performance modifications) So in other words intake, 3" exhaust or actually 3" down pipe with 3" electric cutout and stock catback. With the boost set to 18 PSI. I would go get a chip if they could say YES i will give you a 12:1 ratio. In fact I'd pay 1.5 x what they ask if I could do that and have the ability to tune slightly so that I do not run rich or lean.

[zazzn]

Eric pretty much touched the topic... however, also man... you haven't figured in timing.

The S-AFC on these cars can only modify values +/- 5% past 4K RPM. After talking to Greddy, I found the E-Manage can not be adapted to a 5 cylinder application.

I have 475's out of the S60R and a walbro fuel pump on the stock ecu out of a different year/version car. I can boost 18 PSI if I please. However, my timing maps are still very advanced.

Oh... btw... stock boost cut is at 1 bar

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Thankyou, finally a post form an educated person.

Why do you say it can only adjust +/-5%? Remeber the S-AFC doesn't actually control the fuel injectors it controls the signal recieved form the HOTwire MAF. If I adjust 50% the signal form the MAF is 50% less making the ecu read 50% down the map. So timing is affected by an s-afc as well.

From my findings timing isn't a HUGE factor here. 1-3 degrees at maximum depending on how much change in S-AFC adjust you make so I don't consider this a factor. My supra works the same way and when I took -25 fuel out my timing did jump but nothing that made me leery.

I'd rather have an advnaced timing over stock anyways, helps torque bulid much more quickly just need to run a little less boost to avoid detonation. Here in canada we get 94 sunoco which is good for about 21-22 Psi on my single supra without any timing advnace. However I never pass 20 Psi and will never go pass 18 on my volvo because on the volvo it has a stock intercooler, and i don't plan on changing it. Also I have much cooler weather right now.

The following message is intended for.

Slater, Lax01, RLN THD and Rprasamin

Call me kid and newbie it doesn't matter I know I've probably made more power then you'll ever feel in any car you been in or dream of being in. The Diode mod is a simple one form the turbo Dodge guys. I already said if you are going to be ignorant leave and don't post please. It's funny because guys have been tuning their cars for years using these methods but you go bashing me for even talking about them.

Go back to you 230 RWHP monsters and come read here again when you are ready to read about how to make real power.

[zazzn]

Probably wont work. Will be the same as trying to use an AFC, doesn't do stuff over 4k + WOT. But prove us wrong. If were right your out your time, if your right then we all benifit.

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Thank you.

Why do you say the s-afc doesn't work above 4k? thats exactly where it does work. It doesn't work well below 4K because the ecu is in open loop meaning it's reading the 02 sensor so if you feed it false infomation it tries to compensate to bring it back where it wants it. Since there is no compensation after 4k from the 02 the s-afc will work like gold. I believe who ever wired up the s-afc may have wired it wrong the way it's supposed to work is like this.

HOTWIRE MAF ----- STOCK ECU

S-AFC version

Hotwire maf ---- S-AFC input --- S-AFC out put (values changed to lower or higher value )------ STOCK ECU.

Where we change the values depends where the stock ecu thinks it is on the stock MAP it has bulit in.

[zazzn]

If you really want to understand how the s-afc works

how bout a wideband tune of a s-afc in real time?

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=237569

[Slater]

I didn't call you a kid or newbie.

All I said was there is no magic $0.50 diode or resistor like the "Power chips" on ebay that will magically make your Volvo run at 18psi with correct A/F fuel maps, no boost cut, no detonation, and safe power levels.

If there was IPD, TME, BSR, EST, Upsolute, Speedtuning and everyone else that provides ECU upgrades would be selling little black boxes that you just splice in. But they are not. In fact, if all it took was a diode, then why would Volvo themselves have a different ECU for the T-5R and R models? Why wouldn't they have just took a standard Turbo ECU, added an extra diode directly on the ECU board, and viola? All of the timing and fuel values would just work out perfectly as you say, right?

Also, don't give me the "I've made more power than you so I automatically know what I'm talking about" speech. You have a modded 2G Supra. Whoopdie doo. How many head gaskets have you gone through? I've built, driven, or worked on plenty of 400+ HP cars too pal.

And you are not one to say "you're ignorant so go away." If you have all of the answers then you go out and do the diode mod to YOUR car and tell US what the results are. Don't ask when it's clear no one here has tried a diode or resistor hack and then lecture and belittle us because you are so almighty and all-knowing.

- Slater

[Boomin850]

LoL...right on Slater...

-MIKE D

[zazzn]

Let me repeat.

#3 Has anyone used a zenior diod (spelling) to limit the voltage outputted by the pressure sensor so the ecu only thinks it sees 12 psi meanwhile you're doing 18. Of coruse using fuel pressure or bigger injectors to compensate for the fuel. (possibly even a emanage or s-afc) before you talk about learning and O2 senor shut up please and stop reading the thread because you obviously don't know anything about open and closed loop.

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You obviously don't understand how the diode works or anything i've said so I'm not going to try to bother telling you.

You've already shown your ignorance replying to my tread and replying about the headgasket problem with mk3 supras. Yes it blew the factory one due to the undertorquing of the head form the factory. I promptly solved this problem by adding an HKS and torquing the head down to spec. Never had a problem since.

As for lecturing, I believe it's YOU and your friends on here that started with the name calling and belitting. How quickly we forget...

As for calling me a newbie / kid no you're right you dind't directly call me one but adding the "mOdZ yO" simply implys what you are thinking.

If I was all knowing would I be asking questions in the first place? Maybe I know something that you don't for tuning a car and maybe you know something I don't about this car.

Why else would I post? To be flamed?

[Slater]

You obviously don't understand how the diode works or anything i've said so I'm not going to try to bother telling you.

You've already shown your ignorance replying to my tread and replying about the headgasket problem with mk3 supras. Yes it blew the factory one due to the undertorquing of the head form the factory. I promptly solved this problem by adding an HKS and torquing the head down to spec. Never had a problem since.

As for lecturing, I believe it's YOU and your friends on here that started with the name calling and belitting. How quickly we forget...

As for calling me a newbie / kid no you're right you dind't directly call me one but adding the "mOdZ yO" simply implys what you are thinking.

If I was all knowing would I be asking questions in the first place? Maybe I know something that you don't for tuning a car and maybe you know something I don't about this car.

Why else would I post? To be flamed?

And how is me pointing out the known headasket problems showing ignorance? Of course I know what the fix is. I said it because you made it sound like you drive the world best and most perfect car and anything else is junk, when there are problems with every car.

I said mOdZ yO because I was making fun of those ads on EGAY not you. Have you ever read how those "chips" are worded on ebay? Geesh, drink a beer and smoke a j and chill out dude.

I apologize for everyone else - there have been a lot of newbies coming by asking the same questions over and over and some people do tend to get frustrated because many of the questions can easily be answered by searching.

Anyways, I'm serious about you trying the diode and letting US know. You should know that many times you have to find an answer for yourself, especially if you are treading in unchartered territory like applying a Dodge hack to a Volvo. I know how a diode works (zener is the correct spelling BTW). I just don't think the ECU will be that easily fooled, and I don't think 10 psi maps are the smartest thing for 18psi of boost. The stock maps aren't THAT rich to be able to fuel almost twice the boost!

Let us know what you find out, and welcome to VS.

- Slater

[dancetheman]

if you don't wanna run lean...you can always add another injector...this is what i've heard dodge guys talk about when using this method for more power...don't quote me though...i have no experience and am a newbie. I just work at a dodge dealership so the mechs tell me stuff

A good database for turbo stuff(dodge warning)

btw where's your location Zazzn? you said canada....Northwest by anychance haha

[ROB @ VMS]

Splitsec makes a voltage clamp that i am going to be using.

This will be placed on my MAP sensor. ME7 cars all use one, so that makes me wonder how the ecu in the 4.4 cars determines boost pressure. In my car forsay lets say .6V is 20psi. Well i would want to bleed anything past .58volts so that the car never can hit overboost. This would allow you to use a electronic controller past that given boost pressure. Me7 cars as you know cut throttle through the ecu if something is not within spec. Since Me7 has a 1.6Bar max prssure setting( which is more or less a duty Cycle % i could go over. I then could use race fuel and then adjust ignition. So basicly if you have a Electronic controller,Fuel piggy back that works and a timing system that work you can controll it all yourself. I would love to see people get something going on all the ecus 4.3,4.4,me7. For me7 this is NIRA that actually has a special program to run me7 while the cars runs on a complete standalone ecu.