Sway Bars

[ROB @ VMS]

So what size would you guys like in front and back??? If we make some which we do have plans on doing they will be out of chromoly. They will weigh alot less than the ipd sways. But i do enjoy the ipd sways and im not putting them down i have them on my car :)

[Plan_B]

Also, I found out that the stock rear bar IS hollow. So yes, the IPD solid bar is significantly stiffer than the stock hollow bar, even though they are the same diameter.

Exactly how much stiffer I do not know yet. I still have to calculate it.

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There is NO way the the rear sway bar sitting in my living room is hollow, it's very heavy and I did tap on it, it ain't hollow ;)

[drPheta]

Don't forget that left foot braking will reduce understeer by shifting the weight of the car forward. You can also induce lift off oversteer by letting off the gas abruptly entering a turn.

[Slater]

Don't forget that left foot braking will reduce understeer by shifting the weight of the car forward. You can also induce lift off oversteer by letting off the gas abruptly entering a turn.

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Yup, I am very famaliar with throttle lift and brake induced oversteer.

[Slater]

There is NO way the the rear sway bar sitting in my living room is hollow, it's very heavy and I did tap on it, it ain't hollow

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That's what I thought too, until I drilled a small hole in mine. It's as hollow as a pumpkin.

- Slater

[billr99]

So what size would you guys like in front and back??? If we make some which we do have plans on  doing they will be out of chromoly. They will weigh alot less than the ipd sways. But i do enjoy the ipd sways and im not putting them down i have them on my car

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Since both the stock R set as well as IPD's run about a 2-3mm difference front to back, I would like to see a set of bars that are more equal in diameter. I want the increased roll stiffness, but the prime problem with the 850 chassis is in the difference between the ends that induces too much understeer. At one time, I was trying to get hold of just a rear IPD bar so it would match the stock R front figuring that configuration might just balance the chassis to, at least, my liking. So to answer the question a 22mm setup on both ends might just be the ticket (stock Rs are 22F 20R, right?)

Thanks,

Bill

[EricF]

When considering the balance of F/R IPD sway bars as far as stiffness goes...

Does anyone know what the IPD lowering spring stiffness is, for front and rear?

It could be that the rear springs are a bit stiffer, and to balance it out, they have a smaller sway back there. Stiffer springs in the back is the best setup for FWD as far as traction under acceleration goes anyway

They *did* put a considerable amount of research into these I'm sure, and they have been around for quite some time (real interesting to read steve's post about the 5 different versions they have been through).

[orange850t]

Ok....all you driving technique guys are right on the mark however that doesn't fix the CAR.

Ken, sway bars typically rely on the torsional resistence of the bar, I am not familiar with the rear bar fro the 850's (don't have one yet ) (FWIW many ship shafts LARGE SHAFTS are hollow, navy design rules allow up to 60% iirc)

I have seen a picture of 2 rear sways on a 240 in order to tackle this problem. There is no real way to know what will be "right" without some track testing.

In the end some people will put the end result on their cars abd think the car OVERSTEERS like crazy while some will think its "just right" and still others will tell you that it's just not tight enough.

For you guys with Koni's out back try stiffening the setting while doing some impromptu autox (parking lot on sunday kinda thing.) stiffening the shock, sprink, sway trio back aft should improve the situation.

Everybody elses go to Home Depot and buy 5 or 6 bags of mulch and throw it in the trunk, you should feel the difference.

Now if we could only get ipd to sell the rear bar only.....but they won't because of the safety aspect!!!

(gets off the soapbox, goes to find some money)

[ROB @ VMS]

I can tell you that when i installed the from Ipd bar the front was wayy to stiff and pushed into the corner even more untill i took so stiffness out of the front. Once i did that the front tires would stay on the ground in the turn. The c70 chassis is alot stiffer than the other volvos. Afterall they were ment to be only a convertible. Also using chromoly will drop alot of weight and offer some other advantages. I think each setup may have to have its own custom bar depending on the rest of the suspension system. Only way to really knnow is to do some mad testing which should and will be done once we begin that phase. You guys seems to have this under controll so let me know what you think you would like to see other than ipd specs.

[Slater]

In the end some people will put the end result on their cars abd think the car OVERSTEERS like crazy while some will think its "just right" and still others will tell you that it's just not tight enough. 

Exactly. If you don't like your cars set up this way it will make you nervous.

Also remember guys that the tires make a HUGE difference in thie equation. Probably the MOST important part of the equation.

Sticky tires will be different than cheap all season tires. And some performance tires let you know when they are right at the edge and about to let go more than others.

If you just drive down the highway and jerk the wheel full lock, I don't care what sway bar kit you have you're going to do doughnuts and maybe roll over. But you're an idiot if you drive like that all the time. Some people feel nice and safe with massive understeer. To other it's annoying and you may as well be an old man in a Caddy. If you know how to drive you will feel more comfortable with neutral handling and even some slight oversteer induced by the brake, throttle lift, and/or steering input. It all boils down to personal preference.

[PullMyFinger]

I'm not sure what bar comes stock on my '94 855T. But the front was pretty small and definitely a lot lighter than the ipd unit. I could mic it if you want. I also had *NO* rear bar at all stock. So, I'm guessing my suspension package was the lightest/softest Volvo offered on the 850.

I put TME lowering springs and adjustable koni's on all 4 corners with all completely new hardware including camber adjust bolts. Now, I'm running cheapy 17" alloys and crappy cheap Kumho 215/40s so keep that in mind. And yes I know thats like a thousand dollar saddle on a two dollar horse. But I needed shoes and was out of cash. So, I'm getting better wheels and tires down the road. Also I do have a strut brace as well.

My first autocross yielded the expected horrible understeer that we all know and love. So, recently I installed my latest generation ipd rear sway. Set the rear konis to full hard and the fronts to full soft. Ran my 40 profiles as soft as I could get away with. And here is the key, I left the front stock sway in. Not intentionally mind you, I just ran out of time.

Went to the course and in my opinion (I'll admit limited experience wise) those settings produced what felt like oversteer to me. Meaning the rear end would really come around nicely when diving into a corner just after hard braking. But that also created a somewhat nervous feeling at speed. For some thats fine, for me I'd prefer less.

I felt that setup worked as well as could be expected from my low performance tires. *They* were the limiting factor. At least thats what I think.

I've since installed my ipd front sway and have not had a chance to really push the car as its been nonstop wet around here. And of course, I haven't tracked it at all either. To me it feels much more stable and solid. It also seems to even out bumps in the road that used to jar me silly.

Maybe the ipd rear and stock R or stock non R front is the magic combo?

I'd be willing to loan you my non R front sway for evaluation if you want. I am interested to see what you come up with as far as performance goes. I do agree that ipds bars are safety oriented.

[Slater]

Do they not require an inspection hole like other sanctioning bodies?  That makes it very easy to tell if the tube thickness is correct.

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The inspection hole was added as a measure to prevent the cheating. But then people would have the real stuff on the small section where chromoly was, and muffler tubing everywhere else. So it all "looked" like the correct chromoly tubing. People pulled all sorts of tricks. That's when the ultrasonic inspection devices got big - allowed for random checks in a number of points around the cage and only took a few seconds.

[steve s]

When considering the balance of F/R IPD sway bars as far as stiffness goes...

Does anyone know what the IPD lowering spring stiffness is, for front and rear?

It could be that the rear springs are a bit stiffer, and to balance it out, they have a smaller sway back there.  Stiffer springs in the back is the best setup for FWD as far as traction under acceleration goes anyway

They *did* put a considerable amount of research into these I'm sure, and they have been around for quite some time (real interesting to read steve's post about the 5 different versions they have been through).

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those springs are from tme... i don't think it was an issue with the rear springs being too stiff... i think it was too much stress. that's my explanation as to why they went from 25 mm to 22 mm in the rear... the bar snapped. the 2nd iteration was ok, bar was ok, but the welds on the right would break and cause the bar to swing about wildly cause there is a pivot point on the left. that's what happened to mine. i have the 3rd one right now...not sure the story on that. but suffice to say it broke for some people....not mine..knock on wood. don't have much info on the 4th. the 5th looks like a completely different design. no more pivot points on the left...

[orange850t]

What I need is for IPD to sell just the rear bar......gosh!

You guys are definitely convincing me of theis more and more.

[Slater]

What I need is for IPD to sell just the rear bar......gosh!

You guys are definitely convincing me of theis more and more.

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Has anyone asked IPD? I'm sure they would do it. I know because they have TWO companies make the kits - one makes the front bar another makes the rear. When I talked to someone at IPD a while back they had a BUTTLOAD of rear bars but were waiting on their shipment of front bars for the kits to officially be "in stock". Anyways, I'll bet if you just ask to buy th erear bar they will sell it individually.

Anyone who does this will want to replace the bushings on the front sway bar. To do this, you will have to remove the bar, burn or cut off the vulcanized rubber bushing on the front bar, clean it up real nice to get all of the rubber residue off, and put the bar back on with a nice Poly (or even better Delrin) bushing.

I am going to be doign this for myself, but if you guys think this would be worth making more for other people I can make extras. I would be making 20 and 21mm bushings, so no matter what front bar you had you would be covered.

- Slater