Guest RMurfitt Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Ok some thoughts about the life of the ETM. These thoughts are from me, and are .....I don't know how long the ETM will last, if....... you change your oil every 3K, and clean the ETM every 20K. but thats exactly what I'd do if I had a newer Volvo. Keeping the throttle plate clean means the computer isn't going to be "Fine tuning" the throttle plate as much, so the throttle position sensors should last longer. I will be posting a Bay13 maintenance post on cleaning of the ETM, this will help the DIYs. If you don't want to tackle the job, have it done where you have your car serviced.Long post but it's a long subject.←HiI have a 2000model V70 T5 which has done around 50kmiles and has now deveoped starting problems. I have just had the fault codes checked here they are:ECM-903F ECM-904D, ECM-912AThis points to an ETM throttle body problem as mentioned in this thread. The simptoms are that it wont start or at least it takes some doing. To cut a long story short after replacing the battery thinking that was the problem (before taking it in to be checked) I found it started perfectly immediately after reconnecting and runs as smooth as ever but subsequent starts are problematic. when it does start i get a message saying 'reduced performance' 'DSTC service required'. It stays in 3rd gear and is very lumpy.The garage technition suggests a new throttle body and MAF sensor are required.So my question is would cleaning the the throttle body be sufficent or will it need replacing, will the MAF sensor need replacing and is the DSTC message a red herring caused by the other problems.I should point out that I am in England but I assume the symptoms are much the same. The car was service 4000miles & 10 months ago. mostly urban driving.ThanksRichP.S. Where's the sticky ETM's you refer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuck Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Some ETS info is pinned to the top of the 1999+ forum.VADIS doesn't appear to link those codes to the MAF at all, but I'm not an expert. All three of those codes relate to the ETS, but VADIS says they could be caused by interruption of power to the ECM too (you mentioned battery probs?). Had any body work done lately?Of course you might need a new ETS, but I imagine those codes would be accompanied by the ETS light if that were the case.You might want to clear the codes, clean the TB and hope for the best. There are VS members who are far more knowledgable that I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 VADIS doesn't appear to link those codes to the MAF at all, but I'm not an expert. All three of those codes relate to the ETS, but VADIS says they could be caused by interruption of power to the ECM too (you mentioned battery probs?). Had any body work done lately?Of course you might need a new ETS, but I imagine those codes would be accompanied by the ETS light if that were the case.←Yes the MAF isnt mentioned but why isnt the DSTC(ABS) a message is displayed stating a problem but nothing is coming up on the logs.And i dont get any other messages or lights except the message saying reduced performance. My Symptoms arnt the same in that the ETS seems to work fine if the systems are restarted (by disconnecting the fuses or battery). However it still seems to come up with the ABS problem and eventually starts once stopped but in get home mode however the throttle still works. Could the ABS be the problem? or is that a separate problem or what. I will have to take it to a volvo dealer to be fixed but i dont want them changing every part on the car to eventually find the fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pre_V70_Volvo_Fan Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 This is a very interesting post to me. It is one very near and dear to me at the moment. As I have an appointment at he local dealer on friday 6/8/05 to have my 2000 V70 throttle body looked at. I should mention that it has been replaced twice since March of 2005. The second time it was under warranty but they said the throttle body that they replaced the first time failed due to a leaky PCV valve. When replacing the throttle body the second time I specifically asked the service manager if replacing the PCV valve was the final fix, he said "Yes". So after three full months of service with the new throttle body the same problems exist.I haven't a clue what the dealer's position will be this time but I know one thing simply replacing the throttle body won't fix the problem.I have, in my oopinion very clear symptoms - Leaky rear main seal- Stalling at idle, with fluctuating RPM's for 1k to 300- Black to gray smoke out of the exhaust pipe when accelerating rapidly, or when de-cceleratting. Accompanied by sputtering and knocking in the motor.- ETS light elluminationI have explained fully all of these symptoms and here I sit $1800.00 and six months later with the same problem. I have read also that these motors can get gunked up rather easily. the service manager on my first go around with the throttle body mentioned that these motors can get so gunked up that they can't breathe at all and have to be replaced. Is that true, I have owned three wagons a 240, 850 and now a V70. I got rid of the first two after 120,000 or so. They had no major problems and they are the reason that i bought the V70. The V70 has been giving me throttle body issues for the last 10k miles and it only has 75k on it. If this motor needs to be replaced after only 75k this will be the last Volvo that I own.Any insight or thoughts that the readers may have on the matter is appreciated. One last thing does anyone know what a new 2.4l Volvo motor goes for?Thanks,Ok some thoughts about the life of the ETM. These thoughts are from me, and are just my opinions. I have been working at a Volvo Dealership since 1997. I was in the bays working when the first ETM car rolled into the dealer. (the S80) No thought was given to the ETM, some causual coments about drive by wire, etc, but for the most part no one really knew what was coming down the pike. As you know later the module was fitted to every car from 1999 to present(except the S/V40 series), with a change in supplier in 2002. 1999 was also the year that Volvo jumped to the 7500 mile service interval. Volvo has what I call a dirty intake/PCV system, by that I mean that the crank case gases can come into contact with the throttle plate. Not changing the oil as often makes this even worse. I personally paid for out of my pocket for 7 oil samples on a S80 T6. The customer brought the car in every 1000 miles for me to sample the oil and send it off for analysis. I used Black Stone Labs. Long story short the 4K sample showed that contaminants began to double, and this continued all the way to the 7K sample. This showed me that at 3K the oil should be changed. Now I've worked with PHDs for seven years and I know that one car isn't exactly a huge data point but it made my point and it has proven to be the case as I look at the extreamly dirty oil coming out of the thousands of cars I've changed oil on. Look at your own car. Pull the oil cap off and look at the varnish, if I have serviced your car the cap will be clean, cause I clean them off, but most oil caps have a crusty oil varnish on them. If you don't have the splash vent under the cap look at the top of the head, it's all brown with varnish. I've mentioned all of this to say that, you should change your oil every 3K to keep the crank case fumes as clean as you can, within reason.There is no maintenance mentioned in the owners manual or on the Vadis Cart, that breaks down what should be done for the life of the car. Lots of things are not mentioned, and quite frankly it's because they want to sell cars. The more they can get the anual maintenance cost down the more they can say "our car only takes X amount of money from your pocket". All the manufactures are doing this. It's not going to change. Some things can be proven to actually last longer, like the spark plugs, not because the plugs have jumped to some new super plug, but because the ignition system is very high tech and the plugs will last. Your air filter however still gets just as dirty as it use to, so the 37.5K interval instead of the 30K, is again a game. The 7500 mile oil change is not good if you want to keep your car longer than what a company lease might pay for. If this is your car, and you want to keep it, change the oil.(especially if you live in a Metro type area)I don't know how long the ETM will last, if....... you change your oil every 3K, and clean the ETM every 20K. but thats exactly what I'd do if I had a newer Volvo. Keeping the throttle plate clean means the computer isn't going to be "Fine tuning" the throttle plate as much, so the throttle position sensors should last longer. I will be posting a Bay13 maintenance post on cleaning of the ETM, this will help the DIYs. If you don't want to tackle the job, have it done where you have your car serviced.Long post but it's a long subject.← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickThatClutch Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Quoted cost for install, parts and software for my ETM was $778 how come everyone is about double? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuck Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 Quoted cost for install, parts and software for my ETM was $778 how come everyone is about double?← Because here in New England its closer to $1200. Lame, especially when you can buy the part for $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay13 Posted July 7, 2005 Report Share Posted July 7, 2005 I have, in my oopinion very clear symptoms - Leaky rear main seal- Stalling at idle, with fluctuating RPM's for 1k to 300- Black to gray smoke out of the exhaust pipe when accelerating rapidly, or when de-cceleratting. Accompanied by sputtering and knocking in the motor.- ETS light ellumination- Leaky rear main seal After reading your entire post, I suspect that this is caused by excessive crank case pressure.Stalling at idle, with fluctuating RPM's for 1k to 300 A guess, but if you removed the throttle body (the new one thats not that old time or mileage wise) I'm sure it will have lots of oil on the pipes and hoses attached to it as well as the throttle plate, and this causes the hunting and seeking of the throttle plate to try to maintain idle.- Black to gray smoke out of the exhaust pipe when accelerating rapidly, or when de-cceleratting. Accompanied by sputtering and knocking in the motor. Not sure about this one, but you could have a bad O2 sensor, coupled with the excessive oil in the intake system.- ETS light ellumination Codes being set cause the ECM can't get the ETM to do what it wants to. You may need a new ETS cause it could be damaged by the oil and such, but I'd also recommend that your PCV box on the block and all lines attached to it be replaced to eliminate the chance of the crankcase fumes eating another ETM. Your turbo should be looked at as well to make sure you aren't blowing oil from the turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickThatClutch Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Because here in New England its closer to $1200. Lame, especially when you can buy the part for $500.←I find that odd. Yeah the part it about $550 then two hours labor plus software upload is basically what I was quoted. Mine was a warranty replacement though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhoeve Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 pre v70 volvo fanengines don't get "gunked up" and just need to be replaced. some service managers kill me. your engine, block wise, isn't any different than an 850 for the most part. i suggest following bay13's advice on the the pcv system and other problems. no need to hunt for a new 2.4 engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pre v70 volvo fan Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 pre v70 volvo fanengines don't get "gunked up" and just need to be replaced. some service managers kill me. your engine, block wise, isn't any different than an 850 for the most part. i suggest following bay13's advice on the the pcv system and other problems. no need to hunt for a new 2.4 engine.←UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!Dealer has had a revelation. The dealer took it for two days and removed the entire PCV system, cleaned and replace some hoses. They stated that the "flame box" and all of the hoses or pipes are now clean. Not sure why this wasn't done initially. But they did it free of charge and everything seems to be OK at the moment.There is one other thing if anyone has the time to explain it. While talking with the "service advisor" he used the PCV valve and flame box terms interchangabley as if they were they same item. Is this the case? Personally I had only heard the PCV valve referenced and was unaware that they were one and the same.Anyway, thanks for the info. This forum was very useful to me.Thanks,ScottIron Station, NC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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