Fmic Teaser Pics

[Legbend]

Also here, to give you guys an idea of gains/efficiency of the OEM vs. Spearco.  I just need to see the aftermarket OEM replacements now.

http://personal.linkline.com/dbarton/SpecS...tml#intercooler

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thats a different application, different size, etc...

I think that it's probably slightly better than stock... so if it was relatively cheap, it was probably worth it.

But it SEEMS like an Atech w/ condensor switch would be the best option. Since the stock intercooler is a good size already.

[Owned]

the hassle, money, cost, headache.. it's easier to just get a turbocharged car.

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Mostly money, for what you'll spend to turbo your NA block and do it RIGHT and do it above and beyond a stock turbo setup, you could be picking up a second vehicle. To run more than 7-8 PSI of boost you're going to start with 3 grand or (probably) more to open your block up and change the internals, including labor but not including everything else you'll need (ECU flash, IC, Turbo itself, various plumbing, etc etc).

It can certainly be done, though. I've discussed something close to this with Terry for my newest 850. If I'm ever able to finish, I'll probably have the fastest GLT in the country .

[theunderlord]

If I'm ever able to finish, I'll probably have the fastest GLT in the country  .

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850 GLT maybe..

:rolleyes:

[Owned]

Don't kid yourself. The paint on your trim and handles adds too much weight.

S70 = EZ OWN

While we're on the subject of intercooling, does anyone have experience with NOS IC sprayers? They seem like somewhat of a gimmick, but the NOS would be colder than water and it would cause less damage to the metal of the IC vs water. In most cases I don't think that the IC would be hot enough for the water to cause a lot of damage, but some none the less.

On second thought.. Something like bottled liquid CO2 would have the same effect, if not more cooling (I'm not 100% of the temps of the gas used in the NOS IC systems). It would also cost less. If you didn't use a tank siphon you would have to mount the sprayers pretty close to the IC, but if you DID run a siphon, you would be using much larger amount of CO2 and your IC would most likely have ice hanging off it.

[Zulu]

thats a different application, different size, etc...

I think that it's probably slightly better than stock... so if it was relatively cheap, it was probably worth it.

But it SEEMS like an Atech w/ condensor switch would be the best option. Since the stock intercooler is a good size already.

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I was just providing an idea of the efficiency. Regardless, a 6% increase in thermal efficiency is alot.

[gdizzle]

Could somebody provide me with the efficiency graph of the Atech or these OEM replacement cores?

And I don't see how mounting it in OEM position is more efficient than FMIC as OEM is closer to engine among other components that would heat the area.  But yeah, since most high performance cars mount their ICs behind condensor..

"What I think we can say conclusively is that the Volvo IC poses a restriction as the power level rises, and that a higher flowing or more efficient IC would be desirable. Preferably one that is front mounted. Even the Volvo IC would do better front mounted, but you might have to relocate the AC condenser."

-A guy from TurboBricks quoting an article.

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do a search for the flow charts, they been posted several times.

[Zulu]

Don't kid yourself. The paint on your trim and handles adds too much weight.

S70 = EZ OWN

While we're on the subject of intercooling, does anyone have experience with NOS intercooler sprayers? They seem like somewhat of a gimmick, but the NOS would be colder than water and it would cause less damage to the metal of the intercooler vs water. In most cases I don't think that the intercooler would be hot enough for the water to cause a lot of damage, but some none the less.

On second thought.. Something like bottled liquid CO2 would have the same effect, if not more cooling (I'm not 100% of the temps of the gas used in the NOS intercooler systems). It would also cost less. If you didn't use a tank siphon you would have to mount the sprayers pretty close to the intercooler, but if you DID run a siphon, you would be using much larger amount of CO2 and your intercooler would most likely have ice hanging off it.

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Ok, so what damage are we talking about with water? What happens when it simple rains? But yeah, water isn't as efficient as a CO2 or NO2 setup because when those are purged from the sprayer they are cooled to a greater degree because they are going from a pressurized state to atmospheric pressure. With NO2 + CO2 systems I don't know if one is significantly better than the other, however, they are good upgrades. I've seen SRT-4s on a hot night shave off about .4 seconds off their qt. ET with CO2. No gimmicks.

[Zulu]

do a search for the flow charts, they been posted several times.

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Why couldn't you just post the links for everyone to see? It's not for me personally, it's part of the thread. Greg, I love you.

[Owned]

I feel like NOS is more of a gimmick than CO2. I haven't seen a CO2 system in the aftermarket, but then again I haven't been keeping an eye out at all.

When high temp metal gets hit with water or really anything that's going to cause rapid cool down, it can cause damage. For some reason, at the time, it didn't occur to me that whatever gas you use as an IC spray will also cause as much, if not more for the colder, of a problem. The actual damage would probably have no effect on something like an IC.

I was thinking as I typed instead of before, as I usually do.

An example of rapid cool down being adverse would be washing your chrome wheels after a good highway drive. This will accelerate the chemical reactions that will pull the plating from the wheels.

[Zulu]

I feel like NOS is more of a gimmick than CO2. I haven't seen a CO2 system in the aftermarket, but then again I haven't been keeping an eye out at all.

When high temp metal gets hit with water or really anything that's going to cause rapid cool down, it can cause damage. For some reason, at the time, it didn't occur to me that whatever gas you use as an intercooler spray will also cause as much, if not more for the colder, of a problem. The actual damage would probably have no effect on something like an intercooler.

I was thinking as I typed instead of before, as I usually do.

An example of rapid cool down being adverse would be washing your chrome wheels after a good highway drive. This will accelerate the chemical reactions that will pull the plating from the wheels.

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Yeah, makes sense. Well just to say, a intercooler doesn't get that hot or cold rapid enough to have that happen.

[Guest DougK]

"What I think we can say conclusively is that the Volvo intercooler poses a restriction as the power level rises, and that a higher flowing or more efficient intercooler would be desirable. Preferably one that is front mounted. Even the Volvo intercooler would do better front mounted, but you might have to relocate the AC condenser."

-A guy from TurboBricks quoting an article.

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Wow, you DO realize were talking two completely different intercoolers right? The RWD ones are COMPLETELY different (the early version esepcially) than an 850 intercooler.

You are right about moving it out between the condensor to out in front. What have I been saying for the last 3 years?

Where you are wrong is, surface area is whats going to play the most dividends in cooling. intercooler's are afterall just large radiators. The more area exposed (on the surface) to incoming air the better for cooling. So a intercooler say:

2x8" of surface area is only 16sq/in of surface area. Even if thats 4" thick core, the air slows down as it travels through the intercooler and isn't as effective as you get towards the "back" of the intercooler.

Now, an OEM sized core (as a guesstimate and for easy math) being say 10x20 is 200 sq/in of surface area. At 1 or 2" thick this doesn't impede flow through the intercooler to much (cooling air) so it cools fairly effectively through the core and doesn't block flow to the rest of the componets (condensor, radiator, oil coolers ect). SCC magazine had a good article to the same effect about this a while ago.

So what do you think does better?

4x10x4: 160ci

10x20x2: 400ci

Now Im not knocking anyone doing a project, I just want to see you get into it for the right reasons and with the right knowledge. You should be able to get a cheap air intake temp sensor setup and do some runs before and after. Atleast we'll learn something.

[Guest DougK]

I feel like NOS is more of a gimmick than CO2. I haven't seen a CO2 system in the aftermarket, but then again I haven't been keeping an eye out at all.

When high temp metal gets hit with water or really anything that's going to cause rapid cool down, it can cause damage. For some reason, at the time, it didn't occur to me that whatever gas you use as an intercooler spray will also cause as much, if not more for the colder, of a problem. The actual damage would probably have no effect on something like an intercooler.

I was thinking as I typed instead of before, as I usually do.

An example of rapid cool down being adverse would be washing your chrome wheels after a good highway drive. This will accelerate the chemical reactions that will pull the plating from the wheels.

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I think your over thinking things. Its been proven on the dyno to work, where air flow is minimum. At freeway speeds hard to say, but they do work pretty effectively.

[Zulu]

Wow, you DO realize were talking two completely different intercoolers right? The RWD ones are COMPLETELY different (the early version esepcially) than an 850 intercooler.

You are right about moving it out between the condensor to out in front. What have I been saying for the last 3 years?

Where you are wrong is, surface area is whats going to play the most dividends in cooling. intercooler's are afterall just large radiators. The more area exposed (on the surface) to incoming air the better for cooling. So a intercooler say:

2x8" of surface area is only 16sq/in of surface area. Even if thats 4" thick core, the air slows down as it travels through the intercooler and isn't as effective as you get towards the "back" of the intercooler.

Now, an OEM sized core (as a guesstimate and for easy math) being say 10x20 is 200 sq/in of surface area. At 1 or 2" thick this doesn't impede flow through the intercooler to much (cooling air) so it cools fairly effectively through the core and doesn't block flow to the rest of the componets (condensor, radiator, oil coolers ect). SCC magazine had a good article to the same effect about this a while ago.

So what do you think does better?

4x10x4: 160ci

10x20x2: 400ci

Now Im not knocking anyone doing a project, I just want to see you get into it for the right reasons and with the right knowledge. You should be able to get a cheap air intake temp sensor setup and do some runs before and after. Atleast we'll learn something.

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I understand what you're saying, but longer is better than taller. And to do your math, 30x11x3: 990ci. Yes, surface area is important, but the air needs to remain in the intercooler for a prolonged period of time to be cooled down. If you were to have say 5x30x4:600ci while that is large surface, the air doesn't remain in there long enough to be cooled (too tall, not long). In my case, I have a very efficient core that flows well and is balanced in length and height.

I think your over thinking things. Its been proven on the dyno to work, where air flow is minimum. At freeway speeds hard to say, but they do work pretty effectively.

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I agree, the high speeds would cause the water to be practically thrown off the intercooler. While it would still make a difference, it's effectiveness would decrease immensely.

[Owned]

That's why I think liquid CO2 siphon would be best. You're going to turn the IC into an ice cube, literally.

[Guest DougK]

Sorry about the math, Theresa was nagging me.

Right, but we've already proven over at TB's about intercooler's. Obviously you do want decent length, but surface area trumps all.

Good luck, take some IAT readings before and after. Anything will be an improvement as long as you elave the intercooler behind the condensor in the before, but if you moved it out front it would be a much more fair comparison.