cranky Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Ok, I've been reading all this stuff everyone has to say about the EGR. I have a few questions: I'm just thinking out loud here thats all. Are you measuring intake air temps pre-EGR? or even pre-mass air flow sensor? and if so why? Why not measure air temps at the head, or at least where the intake is bolted to it? Wouldn't measuring air temps before the mass air flow sensor, and then again at the head be ideal? then you could try it with, and without the EGR, and you would know how much heat was being introduced into the engine by the EGR. ------------------------------------------------Why not run a small piece of duct work from the front of the car (possibly from an opening for a fog light) and aim it to blow across the intake, or airbox or whatever part of the engine bay you would like to cool? For those of you who are really serious about cooling your intake, why not weld a few aluminum fins on the intake, for increased heat dissipation. Has anyone seen that sort of thing on any racing vehicle? ------------------------------------------------ How does the computer compensate for the changing temperatures of the intake charge (cooled, or heated) since the mass air flow meter is located before the intake and before the EGR? would it matter?-------------------------------------------------If you are attempting to change the temperature of the air and fuel entering the engine, after the mass air flow sensor, where would the advantage be? Cooler air is more dense - wouldn't you need more fuel to avoid a lean condition? If there isn't enough difference to require more fuel, is there enough difference to make more power?----------------------------------------------I'm not trying to say what will or will not work. I don't know. I have personally seen cars fail the emissions "sniffer" test with an EGR that was not working, and then pass the test, with a working EGR valve being the only change. Just for the record, I couldn't tell any difference in power with - or without the EGR.---------------------------------------------------I'd like to have more power - especially cheap power - who wouldn't? I'd like for my engine to run more efficiently! Who is not for that?BUT:I'm not for polluting the air, and I'm not for cutting the life of my O.2. sensors or clogging my cat converter with soot from an engine not running at peak efficiency.I also don't want more carbon in the combustion chambers that could cause detonation. I hope that someone can shed more light on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLN THDR Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 someone please read this and you will then understand why it is your friend. dont be ignorant, educate yourself. http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h61.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorBleemo Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 someone please read this and you will then understand why it is your friend. dont be ignorant, educate yourself. http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h61.pdf←If it is so good then I have two questions for you.(1.) Why does Slater's engine temps drop by about 50f and thereby inrease timing for more power when the EGR is disabled?(2.) Why did Volvo remove it from models later then '95? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricF Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 If it is so good then I have two questions for you.(1.) Why does Slater's engine temps drop by about 50f and thereby inrease timing for more power when the EGR is disabled?(2.) Why did Volvo remove it from models later then '95?←For your number 1...Reduced intake temperature does not necessarily always mean reduced combustion temperature, the composition of the air coming in may make it burn hotter or colder. Removing the EGR may very well lower combustion temperatures, but considering that in that link, lowered combustion temperatures is a primary goal of the system, I find that unlikely.Only way to know for sure would be to hook up an EGT sensor and see how hot the exhaust coming out of the combustion chamber is... Additionally, monitoring knock would be interesting to see.As to why they removed the EGR, who really knows? Maybe they found it was really unnecessary to comply with emissions standards of the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLN THDR Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 if one reads they will see that it is not the intake charge(as eric pointed out) that is key to performance. The excessive combustion temp caused by load is reduced at only this appropriate time. The egr is helping when it is needed only. in effect when combustion temps rise the timing is retarded to prevent the knock. some of you( 9/10) are only using half the information and are not comprehending. Read and understand the link(thank me later/not) i am through trying to tutor the obstinate ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteT5 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Let's try something that can't be argued with. Run the car w/ the stock '95 chip on a dyno. Wait a while for heat soak and stuff to go away. Run car again w/ stock '96 or '97 chip. Compare dyno results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Well, a dyno test will give you the all-out-boogie factor, but what about real-world driving conditions? Stop-n-go, accelerating uphill, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted August 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Here are the FACTS:1. The EGR is ONLY on 93-95 engines.2. The EGR is ONLY on US (or NA market) engines - not Euro-spec engines. Why do you think this is, if the EGR is so "great"? Why wouldn't Volvo slap it on ALL the engines in the world? Could it be fat politicians and EPA interests perhaps? Oh wait, I remember now - it's for more horsepower because of a lower EGT!3. The rear O2 is ONLY on US (or NA market) engines - not Euro-spec engines. Why do you think this is too?4. The EGR ONLY functions at idle and part throttle. The EGR DOES NOT FUNCTION at WOT or under BOOST. The 93-95 ECU disables it. Look it up in VADIS for yourself. This is how Volvo implements it. Not GM or Kia or anyone else. Volvo. Why is this? If you think EGR is your engine's friend and allows lower EGT temps and all this great stuff, remove your rose-colored glasses.5. EGR has nothing to do with horsepower. It is for emmissions only.6. The BEST and most effective way to "disable" your EGR is to install a 96-98 ECU, remove the pipe at the exhaust manifold and plug it, and remove the EGR valve at the intake manifold and plug it.7. If you don't want to "pollute the environment", don't mess with your EGR. But if you really care about it, you would clean it out as I guarentee 95% of all EGRs on 93-95s with 100K+ are clogged shut and aren't doing anything anyways.8. Lower intake temperatures makes horsepower, due to denser intake charge. That's a fact on any combustion engine, from a lawn mower to a SeaDoo. Why is your car faster at night time when it is cooler out? Is it because of EGR? Is it because of EGR temps? No, it's because the intake temperatures are lower.9. Lower intake temperatures decreases knock. Knock is bad. Knock bends rods and kills engines.10. More oxygen in the intake mixture of the combustion chamber allows the potential for more combustion energy, increasing power if used and burned.If you don't believe the above facts, don't. Believe what you want to believe. Or find out the answers for yourself on a dyno, the emmissions testing station, and your own car like I did.- Slater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted August 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Let's try something that can't be argued with. Run the car w/ the stock '95 chip on a dyno. Wait a while for heat soak and stuff to go away. Run car again w/ stock '96 or '97 chip. Compare dyno results.←That will not work. It would only work is the ONLY thing that changed in 96 was the EGR. But there was a number of changes in 96. 15G was replaced with 16T, fuel and timing is different, etc.The ONLY true way to test this is to run the tests on a 95 car (with a95 ECU), and electronically fool the ECU into thinking the EGR is hooked up and working properly, then remove the EGR pipe (plug the fitting in the exhaust manifold and plug the sensor spot in the intake manifold. This way, the ONLY variable that has changed is the EGR. Same ECU, same turbo, same ECU maps, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteT5 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Slater, I know that Volvo sells a part to plug the intake side of the EGR, but what would you suggest doing on the exhaust side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Slater, I know that Volvo sells a part to plug the intake side of the EGR, but what would you suggest doing on the exhaust side?←Buy that exhaust plug.I think it is SN 960631 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ping138 Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 So if we just pull the thing and plug it can we call it done? or will this lead to an eternal CEL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted August 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 So if we just pull the thing and plug it can we call it done? or will this lead to an eternal CEL?←Read my #6 fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Take a look below the windscreen.. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilhuly Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 15G was replaced in 96? Wouldn't that be 98? Otherwise I have a 16T in my 97? That doesn't sound right.That will not work. It would only work is the ONLY thing that changed in 96 was the EGR. But there was a number of changes in 96. 15G was replaced with 16T, fuel and timing is different, etc.The ONLY true way to test this is to run the tests on a 95 car (with a95 ECU), and electronically fool the ECU into thinking the EGR is hooked up and working properly, then remove the EGR pipe (plug the fitting in the exhaust manifold and plug the sensor spot in the intake manifold. This way, the ONLY variable that has changed is the EGR. Same ECU, same turbo, same ECU maps, etc.← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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