No Engine Noise

[banksie312]

so ive beens tudying physics since about september now and ive learned through many class discussions that my physics teacher is very knowledgeable in the sound department due to its close tie to phsyics (and his son has "3 thumper subs in his trunk")

i was asking him if there was a way to run the power line and the speaker wire (RCAs) from the head unit to the back of the car to put in an amp, without getting any engine noise and still running them together

i had suggested some sort of insulation and he said it was way too expensive

he told me about an adapter that you can put on that will control the electron flow that creates the noise and completely eliminate engine noise

he said its cheap and easy to install

ill get more info on it later but if you guys have heard of it let me know because it can definately save a lot of people some time by wiring it all on the same side

thanks

ps if this has been discussed before please ignore

[javadoc]

Can't you just run Zero-noise wiring? It's been a bit since I did car audio, however.

[banksie312]

Can't you just run Zero-noise wiring? It's been a bit since I did car audio, however.

sorry for prolly a n00b question but

Zero-Noise wiring?

[javadoc]

Something like this, but not sure if it's what you need...

http://www.streetwires.com/products/interc.../zeroNoise6.cfm

[nagrod18]

I have mine wired together, they are not zip tied or anything, but they are a couple inches apart at most and I've never heard any engine noise. My power wire appears to be braided, it this for shielding?

[Bing_0]

a lot of things determine whether there is engine noise, quality of cables, quality of ground, quality of headunit and amp...i dont know a lot about hte technicality of it, but its definetly possible to run rcas with power wires and have no issues, a balanced line should eliminate any noises there is...but again, its just a lot easier running them further apart down different sides of hte car and thats why to me and most isntalelrs, its a common practice

b

[banksie312]

a lot of things determine whether there is engine noise, quality of cables, quality of ground, quality of headunit and amp...i dont know a lot about hte technicality of it, but its definetly possible to run rcas with power wires and have no issues, a balanced line should eliminate any noises there is...but again, its just a lot easier running them further apart down different sides of hte car and thats why to me and most isntalelrs, its a common practice

b

the only reason im asking is because as opposed to having to wire to separate sides of the car, running them together for really cheap, like relaly cheap is a little better for me because honestly im not super comfortable taking stuff and having to force panels out

as you can guess i havent done much yet to my car but i would just find it easier

thanks though

[nagrod18]

I don't see how running the wires separate will be expensive? Are you talking about running the wires above the carpet or something? If so, don't......it's not that hard to run them under the carpet if you follow the tutorial.

[javadoc]

the only reason im asking is because as opposed to having to wire to separate sides of the car, running them together for really cheap, like relaly cheap is a little better for me because honestly im not super comfortable taking stuff and having to force panels out

as you can guess i havent done much yet to my car but i would just find it easier

thanks though

You could think of it this way. Your wire bundle could be really big if you put it all down one side, making it difficult to manipulate. Although it's more work to run power down one side, and speakers/rca's down the other side, I'd likely be less bulky and easier to get it all tucked in and hidden w/o a lump. Just one way of looking at it.

[PyROZen]

i run power cables next to RCAs on every install i do. the yellow lighting audio cables and LA power wires and i never get noise. If i do happen to get noise it's usually due to bad grounds, or most of the time, using line out convertors to keep the factory deck but add an amp. Even when i run 4 channel amps i'll run the wires down the same side as the power wire and i still get 0 noise. maybe i'm just lucky

lee

[AnthonyR]

What he is talking about is called a ground loop isolator and it goes on the RCA's. and there is also a similar thing for the power cable. Alpine headunits have these in line for their higher end headunits on the constant power cable. Basically uses coils and inducers to eliminate noise. Not sure on the specifics of it though, and they don't always work.

[banksie312]

I don't see how running the wires separate will be expensive? Are you talking about running the wires above the carpet or something? If so, don't......it's not that hard to run them under the carpet if you follow the tutorial.

i wasnt saying its expensive, id rather pay $20 and save me time running wires down both sides of the car

i may not have said that clearly

What he is talking about is called a ground loop isolator and it goes on the RCA's. and there is also a similar thing for the power cable. Alpine headunits have these in line for their higher end headunits on the constant power cable. Basically uses coils and inducers to eliminate noise. Not sure on the specifics of it though, and they don't always work.

i think thats what he was talking about actually, but i think i might go to him tommorrow and ask thanks

[jross]

If you use some sort of coax for your RCA line and just ground the outer sleeve (run the signal on the inner core, ground the outer) you should be good. Ask your teacher to show you about E-fields inside conductors ;)

[crazykn]

^^^If that means running the positive wire in the inner wire, and the negative with the shield, then thats no good, because if you ground the outer shell of the RCA connector to the body that will horribly distrupt the signal.

I guess none of you guys (or gals), have any experience in production/DJ sound systems. We use XLR cables, which has a twisted pair wire wrapped in a conductive shield. That provides extremely good shielding from any noise whatsoever, but it doesn't stop there. XLR cables systems (which is very universal), use line drivers to reverse the phase of the audio before the signal travels in the wire, and gets phased back correctly at the recieving equipment. What happens is that if any noise entered the wire? The noise gets cancelled out due the phasing differences and correction (i'm sure there is someone that can explain it better than me). I've worked in theater sound and lighting for years already, I know first hand the XLR cables shield noise extremely well (because our lighting systems generate considerable amounts of noise).

In car audio, you'll won't see such line drivers, but using any twisted pair w/ a shield around it will do the most noise shielding. You can buy XLR cables, cut off the ends and wire your signal RCAs or speakers with it (using the twisted pair), then use the shield wire/foil and tie that to the body of the car. Because if any noise were to get to wire, it would hit the shield and gets 'dissipated' into the ground of the car. In theory no noise can pass through the shield (as long its correctly grounded and fully covering the twisted pair).

This works well in car audio, but not consumer home audio, because the shell of most home equipment is tied to the negative part of the signal (ie the outer shell of the RCA connector), while in car audio it isn't.

[banksie312]

^^^If that means running the positive wire in the inner wire, and the negative with the shield, then thats no good, because if you ground the outer shell of the RCA connector to the body that will horribly distrupt the signal.

I guess none of you guys (or gals), have any experience in production/DJ sound systems. We use XLR cables, which has a twisted pair wire wrapped in a conductive shield. That provides extremely good shielding from any noise whatsoever, but it doesn't stop there. XLR cables systems (which is very universal), use line drivers to reverse the phase of the audio before the signal travels in the wire, and gets phased back correctly at the recieving equipment. What happens is that if any noise entered the wire? The noise gets cancelled out due the phasing differences and correction (i'm sure there is someone that can explain it better than me). I've worked in theater sound and lighting for years already, I know first hand the XLR cables shield noise extremely well (because our lighting systems generate considerable amounts of noise).

In car audio, you'll won't see such line drivers, but using any twisted pair w/ a shield around it will do the most noise shielding. You can buy XLR cables, cut off the ends and wire your signal RCAs or speakers with it (using the twisted pair), then use the shield wire/foil and tie that to the body of the car. Because if any noise were to get to wire, it would hit the shield and gets 'dissipated' into the ground of the car. In theory no noise can pass through the shield (as long its correctly grounded and fully covering the twisted pair).

This works well in car audio, but not consumer home audio, because the shell of most home equipment is tied to the negative part of the signal (ie the outer shell of the RCA connector), while in car audio it isn't.

i actually mix and set up sound systems for local music shows (only person that takes time to mix it correctly) and i never understood the reason for using XLR cables and now i do

thanks for the explination, and i get it