Adjusting The Camshafts

[mikie]

Okay so I just recieved Slater's Timing Wheel. I removed the two 10 mm bolt's furthes away from the TDC point on the intake camshaft. I then placed the QBM Timing Wheel and check out the timing before removing the last 10mm bolt. The TDC of the intake camshaft is positioned in the E area of the QBM Timing Wheel all the way to the last line so -10. There is no way I can get the TDC in the "I" are of the QMB Timing Wheel.

So the question is what should I do? Also why would my intake camshaft be so off? Or is it?

Thank You,

Mikie

[BlackT5]

Can you post a pic?

[mikie]

Can you post a pic?

Ya I'll go do that right now.

[mikie]

Okay so you can slightly see the TDC... I'm wondering if I should check out the exhaust camshaft.

[GShyneDM]

Okay so you can slightly see the TDC... I'm wondering if I should check out the exhaust camshaft.

Change the screws that you are using to get it on the right one...

From your pictures, use the top two screws to take off, and the bottom screw is the one that fits through the big hole of the wheel.

[mikie]

Change the screws that you are using to get it on the right one...

From your pictures, use the top two screws to take off, and the bottom screw is the one that fits through the big hole of the wheel.

Thanks for your reply but I did try it like that too and the TDC point is completely off the reading of the wheel. I just tried the exhaust camshaft and its the same problem, the TDC point is not on the reading of the wheel. I don't understand why my timing would be so off.

I do remember about a month ago when I got some computer upgrade through the dealer and it was very noticable (mid-range to top end power gain), maybe they adjusted the camshafts without having a tool?

And I had a oil leak and it happened to be a loose bolt on one of the camshafts, could this have made the camshaft move while driving with a loose bolt?

Thanks

[billr99]

Thanks for your reply but I did try it like that too and the TDC point is completely off the reading of the wheel. I just tried the exhaust camshaft and its the same problem, the TDC point is not on the reading of the wheel. I don't understand why my timing would be so off.

I do remember about a month ago when I got some computer upgrade through the dealer and it was very noticable (mid-range to top end power gain), maybe they adjusted the camshafts without having a tool?

And I had a oil leak and it happened to be a loose bolt on one of the camshafts, could this have made the camshaft move while driving with a loose bolt?

Thanks

Did you try and set the cams and crank to the timing marks before you put the degree wheel on? It shouldn't make a difference but if you line everything up that way you are matched with Slaters instructions. With what you are showing here, there is no way that your cam timing is that far off and the car still runs. I suspect that you are either not putting the wheel on right or that particular wheel is way off in some way.

Good luck,

[beachnut]

I agree with Bill ... get your crank and cam gears to the proper TDC position then try again.

http://www.volvospeed.com/Repair/timingbelt.php

[GShyneDM]

Looks like your engine is really retarded... hahahha

Hrmm...something is definitely off... Sorry I wont have time tonite to really look at my car and compare for you.

I'll try and look tomorrow in the morning.

Hey you know what.... do what I told you and take a picture of it for comparisons sake... maybe your car is just advanced a lot??

Whats your MPG? Do you have a boost/vac gauge? Whats the reading?

[Slater]

Looks like perhaps you simply lined it up with the wrong bolts. Just remove the timing wheel and put it one bolt over, so the TDC mark falls on the "I" timing section. No biggie.

Hey you know what.... do what I told you and take a picture of it for comparisons sake... maybe your car is just advanced a lot??

There is no way to advance the cam past the timing marks on my wheel. The cam pulley is only slotted 15 degrees total. My wheel has 20 degrees worth of timing range. So it is physically impossible to move the cam beyond the range of the marks on my wheel because the slots in the cam pulley prevent it.

I suspect that you are either not putting the wheel on right or that particular wheel is way off in some way.

I just held 6 wheels up to the computer screen and they are all exactly identical to the picture he posted.

The wheels are all assembled on a pinned fixture, so it is impossible to mismark them. That is why they are so accurate.

Personally I think somewhere along the line in this engine's history the intake cam pulley was replaced with an exhaust cam pulley. The cam pulley looks so rusted I'd bet somewhere along the line the motor was either in a junkyard, or dissasembled, or the head replaced, etc and the cam pulley was changed. I have seen it happen on other cars where someone would run over soemthing like a bolt that would get inside the cover and chew/destroy the cam pulley and belt. So maybe at the time it was cheapest and easiest to replace the intake pulley with an exhaust pulley from a spare toolbox or junkyard.

If I had to put money on it that is what I would say the issue is.

[billr99]

Looks like perhaps you simply lined it up with the wrong bolts. Just remove the timing wheel and put it one bolt over, so the TDC mark falls on the "I" timing section. No biggie.

There is no way to advance the cam past the timing marks on my wheel. The cam pulley is only slotted 15 degrees total. My wheel has 20 degrees worth of timing range. So it is physically impossible to move the cam beyond the range of the marks on my wheel because the slots in the cam pulley prevent it.

I just held 6 wheels up to the computer screen and they are all exactly identical to the picture he posted.

The wheels are all assembled on a pinned fixture, so it is impossible to mismark them. That is why they are so accurate.

Personally I think somewhere along the line in this engine's history the intake cam pulley was replaced with an exhaust cam pulley. The cam pulley looks so rusted I'd bet somewhere along the line the motor was either in a junkyard, or dissasembled, or the head replaced, etc and the cam pulley was changed. I have seen it happen on other cars where someone would run over soemthing like a bolt that would get inside the cover and chew/destroy the cam pulley and belt. So maybe at the time it was cheapest and easiest to replace the intake pulley with an exhaust pulley from a spare toolbox or junkyard.

If I had to put money on it that is what I would say the issue is.

Slater:

Don't get me wrong, I was not suggesting that there was a quality problem with one of your wheels. Your stuff is absolutely top-notch for sure. I was just making suggestions that might lead to the conclusion that the wheel was just on the pulley wrong versus any other possiblity. The instructions you provided, if followed, would not result in a picture like this, wrong pulley or not. It is clear that he has the whole timing setup advanced way beyond the basic timing setup marks. But you may have nailed it by suggesting that its not an intake pulley. I did a bit of tuning on Sat. and I didn't see any marking differences between the two except the timing mark location.

By the way, I ended up finding that my "stock" settings were at +4.5 exhaust and +1 intake. I always thought that the car was peaky down low with some fairly dramatic torque shifts if I got on it, especially on the 1-2 shift. I backed the exhaust cam off to +2 and the whole car is much more drivable now, smoother between shifts with a bit more grunt high in the rev range. I'll drive it until the weekend and maybe play with the intake by a degree or so and see what that does, but right now the smoothness is so great the money spent on your wheel was well worth it. Thanks much!!

Cheers,

Bill

[Slater]

Slater:

Don't get me wrong, I was not suggesting that there was a quality problem with one of your wheels. Your stuff is absolutely top-notch for sure. I was just making suggestions that might lead to the conclusion that the wheel was just on the pulley wrong versus any other possiblity. The instructions you provided, if followed, would not result in a picture like this, wrong pulley or not. It is clear that he has the whole timing setup advanced way beyond the basic timing setup marks. But you may have nailed it by suggesting that its not an intake pulley. I did a bit of tuning on Sat. and I didn't see any marking differences between the two except the timing mark location.

By the way, I ended up finding that my "stock" settings were at +4.5 exhaust and +1 intake. I always thought that the car was peaky down low with some fairly dramatic torque shifts if I got on it, especially on the 1-2 shift. I backed the exhaust cam off to +2 and the whole car is much more drivable now, smoother between shifts with a bit more grunt high in the rev range. I'll drive it until the weekend and maybe play with the intake by a degree or so and see what that does, but right now the smoothness is so great the money spent on your wheel was well worth it. Thanks much!!

Cheers,

Bill

Bill, I know you weren't hating - no harm done. And you are right - the ONLY difference between the pullies is the location of the TDC mark. I am 95% positive he has an exhaust pulley in place of the intake pulley. If the pulley is indeed an intake pulley, that means his timing is retarded approximately 37 degrees. The car would not even run and the valves would bend. There is no way that is the case. I think the TDC mark is off. An easy way to tell is to rotate the crank to TDC - the TDC marks on the pulleys should like up with the "Vs" cut out in the plastic timing cover. I'll bet if he tries that, the TDC marks on the crank pulley and exhaust pulley will be lined up properly, and the TDC mark on the intake pulley will be way off. If that is the case that will prove my theory about the exhaust pulley. And if that is the case he can still adjust his cams - I would imagine it would be OK to just use the exhaust timing marks for both cams (or I can send him a new intake pulley to swap out if he wants - I have an extra).

- Slater

[mikie]

Alright, I wish I was here when you guys were posting. I will try my best to answer all the question and hopefully we can come to some sort of conclusion. Oh and I'm not a car wiz...

First off, I bought this car brand new from a volvo dealer so I highly doubt that I have an engine from a junkyard. I've never done/needed any engine work that required to remove the head. I've never changed my timing belt...which I will be doing very soon (160 000km). I do realize that the intake cam is rusted while the exhaust cam is not (good point Slater). This doesn't make sense and I don't like the fact that I'm coming to the conclusion that someone replaced my intake cam with a rusted old cam.

I read Slater's instructions and decided not to bother with adjusting the TDC's by turning the crank pulley. The reason for this was that I did not want to remove my wheel and get on the floor due to an injury. I was not even planing on adjusting the cams, just was curious to see were my original timing was at. So I guess I will take my car to volvo and have my timing belt replace and I will ask them to make sure that my crank and cam gears are set to the proper TDC position, and will ask them about that rusted cam. Then I will take a look at the timing with the QBM wheel. How does that sound? Or should I give them Slaters wheel and let them use that to adjust the cams?

I don't have the read of MPG on my car, however I do about 500km on almost a full gas tank (average). So I believe the tank holds 65 liters..."calculations..." So that would work out to be 18MPG. I guess not so good but I do drive hard. I've made 700km once before which would be 25.3MPG (all highway though). And no I don't have a boost/vac gauge so can't give you any readings on that.

Here are a picture of the exhaust cam with the wheel on. Notice once again the TDC is off the marks of the wheel. In this case it would have made more sense if I change the wheel position using the other bolt above, the TDC will still not be in the area of the marks on the wheel, but at least it would be closer to the "E" area of the wheel.

Well thanks Slater for you product, I I hope I will be able to use it soon. I did compare my wheel with the pictures online and they are exaclty the same so definately there is a problem with my cams and not Slaters product. It's just strange cause my car seems to be running great.

So please guys give me your input on what I should do. Thanks for your help.

Notice on this pictures the exhaust cam is rust free.

Decided to show my engine, I think it looks like it's in good condition...no?

[BlackT5]

I really don't know what to suggest at this point. AFAIK the cams are slotted so the gears only go on one way. How they could be so far out of alignment I do not know. It may be worth a call/trip back to the dealer to see if they have any information. You said you bought the car new, have you always gone to the one dealer for maintenance? Has the timing belt been done once before?

[mikie]

No haven't done the timing belt yet...but it's time to do it know. I've brought my car to the dealer almost all the time. There once maybe only once or twice that I took it elsewhere.