Adjusting The Camshafts

[bus stop]

you can ask the dealer to check the TDC position and ask them why one cam gear is rust.

also, I will take a few more pic before bring in the car for timing belt service so you can compare the position of the cam gear after they change the timing belt.

[Slater]

I really don't know what to suggest at this point. AFAIK the cams are slotted so the gears only go on one way. How they could be so far out of alignment I do not know. It may be worth a call/trip back to the dealer to see if they have any information. You said you bought the car new, have you always gone to the one dealer for maintenance? Has the timing belt been done once before?

The cams bolt to the cam pulley by 3 bolts. If you remove the 3 bolts, you can spin the cam pulley on the cam freely like a roulette wheel assuming there is no resistance from the timing belt.

Let's say you were doing a timing belt change, and once the belt was off you removed all 3 bolts. Once the bolts are out, you could theoretically spin the cam pulley 120 degrees until it lines up with the next set of 3 holes (i.e. 360 degrees/3=120), put the bolts back in, put the belt back on, and viola, everything would be fine - the car would run fine because the CAMS never moved. But the cam PULLEYs would be 120 degrees off (i.e. the TDC mark) because you spun the pulley to the next set of holes). I'm not saying that is what happened, and I have no clue why on earth someone would do that, but I was pointing it out as an explanation of how you could theoretically make it appear the cam pulley has been moved "beyond" the normal range.

I guess it's also possible that someone majorly messed up at the factory, put an exhaust cam pulley on the intake side, and put the exhaust pulley on the exhaust cam 120 degrees off from where it should be before bolting it to the cam. It's highly doubtful but possible.

[Slater]

First off, I bought this car brand new from a volvo dealer so I highly doubt that I have an engine from a junkyard. I've never done/needed any engine work that required to remove the head. I've never changed my timing belt...which I will be doing very soon (160 000km). I do realize that the intake cam is rusted while the exhaust cam is not (good point Slater). This doesn't make sense and I don't like the fact that I'm coming to the conclusion that someone replaced my intake cam with a rusted old cam.

I agree, doesn't make sense.

I read Slater's instructions and decided not to bother with adjusting the TDC's by turning the crank pulley. The reason for this was that I did not want to remove my wheel and get on the floor due to an injury. I was not even planing on adjusting the cams, just was curious to see were my original timing was at. So I guess I will take my car to volvo and have my timing belt replace and I will ask them to make sure that my crank and cam gears are set to the proper TDC position, and will ask them about that rusted cam. Then I will take a look at the timing with the QBM wheel. How does that sound? Or should I give them Slaters wheel and let them use that to adjust the cams?

Personally, most dealers are anti-performance parts. If you went in and handed them my wheel, and they ran into the same thing you did, I guarentee they would say my wheel was the problem which it is not.

Here's what I would do. Since you have an injury, just have a friend remove the wheel and pull back the splash cover and rotate the crank to TDC. The marks on the cam pulley should line up exactly like this:

If your cams do not line up exactly like this, then something is whack with your pulleys. EIther someone switched them, or rotated them, or the factory messed up, or something. At that point you could take it to the dealer and say "Hey, why are my cam pulleys not lined up to TDC? I want to eventually change my own timing belt, but I can't if the cams and crank don't line up with one another. How could this have happened?" Don't mention the wheel, show them the wheel, or tell them what you are doing with the wheel. First things first - you need to find out why your TDC marks are off. So start there.

Here are a picture of the exhaust cam with the wheel on. Notice once again the TDC is off the marks of the wheel. In this case it would have made more sense if I change the wheel position using the other bolt above, the TDC will still not be in the area of the marks on the wheel, but at least it would be closer to the "E" area of the wheel.

That is so odd...

[BlackT5]

The cams bolt to the cam pulley by 3 bolts. If you remove the 3 bolts, you can spin the cam pulley on the cam freely like a roulette wheel assuming there is no resistance from the timing belt.

Let's say you were doing a timing belt change, and once the belt was off you removed all 3 bolts. Once the bolts are out, you could theoretically spin the cam pulley 120 degrees until it lines up with the next set of 3 holes (i.e. 360 degrees/3=120), put the bolts back in, put the belt back on, and viola, everything would be fine - the car would run fine because the CAMS never moved. But the cam PULLEYs would be 120 degrees off (i.e. the TDC mark) because you spun the pulley to the next set of holes). I'm not saying that is what happened, and I have no clue why on earth someone would do that, but I was pointing it out as an explanation of how you could theoretically make it appear the cam pulley has been moved "beyond" the normal range.

I guess it's also possible that someone majorly messed up at the factory, put an exhaust cam pulley on the intake side, and put the exhaust pulley on the exhaust cam 120 degrees off from where it should be before bolting it to the cam. It's highly doubtful but possible.

Thanks for clarifying.

Like you said, I can't see why someone changing the timing belt would remove the cam pulley, but in my mind it's more likely what happened. I really can't see it coming from the factory that way.

I agree, doesn't make sense.

Personally, most dealers are anti-performance parts. If you went in and handed them my wheel, and they ran into the same thing you did, I guarentee they would say my wheel was the problem which it is not.

yep.

Here's what I would do.....take it to the dealer and say "Hey, why are my cam pulleys not lined up to TDC? I want to eventually change my own timing belt, but I can't if the cams and crank don't line up with one another. How could this have happened?" Don't mention the wheel, show them the wheel, or tell them what you are doing with the wheel. First things first - you need to find out why your TDC marks are off. So start there.

Solid advice right there. Let us know what the dealer says.

[mikie]

Oh I see... spining the pulley without the bolt and without the belt would not knock off timing but put off the TDC marks. That seems like a logicall explination to why my timing seems to be off but with the car runing fine. I never changed the belt but I did have an oild leak and the dealer found that it was a loose bolt on one of the camshafts...so maybe for some reason they removed the cam to see if there was a deaper problem then just a bolt..??

Okay well I'm going to speak with the manager at my dealer to see what he says about all this.

Thanks guys once again and if I need a new intake cam, how much do those go for?

[Slater]

Oh I see... spining the pulley without the bolt and without the belt would not knock off timing but put off the TDC marks. That seems like a logicall explination to why my timing seems to be off but with the car runing fine. I never changed the belt but I did have an oild leak and the dealer found that it was a loose bolt on one of the camshafts...so maybe for some reason they removed the cam to see if there was a deaper problem then just a bolt..??

Okay well I'm going to speak with the manager at my dealer to see what he says about all this.

Thanks guys once again and if I need a new intake cam, how much do those go for?

You don't need a new cam - there should be nothing wrong with your cam itself. If you mean the cam PULLEY because of the rust don't sweat it - it's just surface rust and doesn't hurt anything. They can clean it off depending on how bad it is when they do your timing belt.

[BlackT5]

You shouldn't need a new cam. Most that you'd need would be for them to re-align the cam pulleys so that they line up with the crank at TDC.

Do what Slater suggested and tell them that you wanted to do your own timing belt, but the pulley's don't line up. If it was something they did, then it should cost you nothing.

[Slater]

You shouldn't need a new cam. Most that you'd need would be for them to re-align the cam pulleys so that they line up with the crank at TDC.

Do what Slater suggested and tell them that you wanted to do your own timing belt, but the pulley's don't line up. If it was something they did, then it should cost you nothing.

Also, I shoudl clarify that you are just TELLING them that you want to do your own timing belt. I know you said you were going to have THEM do the timing belt. But that's a seperate issue. Right now you need to get the timing marks figured out before anyone does anything. So just act like YOU are going to do a timing belt and see why they think the marks are off, and go from there.

[mikie]

Also, I shoudl clarify that you are just TELLING them that you want to do your own timing belt. I know you said you were going to have THEM do the timing belt. But that's a seperate issue. Right now you need to get the timing marks figured out before anyone does anything. So just act like YOU are going to do a timing belt and see why they think the marks are off, and go from there.

Okay thanks Slater. I went to speak with the manager and told him that my timing marks are out of wack. He said it's not a big issue, the only issue is that I cannot use your tool at this point in time. So I'm going back on Friday and we will check things out together. Oh and I knew this guy for some time now so I told him eveything, I have trust in my dealership... he was cool with it. So hopefully everything will work out on Friday. I'll let you guys know.

Thanks again.

[Slater]

Okay thanks Slater. I went to speak with the manager and told him that my timing marks are out of wack. He said it's not a big issue, the only issue is that I cannot use your tool at this point in time. So I'm going back on Friday and we will check things out together. Oh and I knew this guy for some time now so I told him eveything, I have trust in my dealership... he was cool with it. So hopefully everything will work out on Friday. I'll let you guys know.

Thanks again.

Whoa cool! Let us know what happens!

[mikie]

Okay so I got back from the dealer, both cams (tdc marks) do line up, I saw it with my own eyes. I then went home to attempt again with Slaters wheel...same problem. So I decided to get creative, I put the wheel on the exhaust cam randomly and made a pencil mark on the cam at 0. Then I turned the cam both ways to its' max to see were I'm at. Luckily the exhaust cam worked out to be set at 0 so I then was able to adjusted it accordingly. I did the same for the intake cam which needed a little more work though.

The car is running fine. Before you felt the car start to really pick up at about 4000 rpm (which kind of sucked), now it seems that the acceleration is more even throughout starting at a much lower rpm. I didn't get a chance to go through all gears since we just got a lot of snow today so the roads are not that great. Eventually I will take my car to fine tune the cams to get the best possible results.

Thanks

[Slater]

Okay so I got back from the dealer, both cams (tdc marks) do line up, I saw it with my own eyes. I then went home to attempt again with Slaters wheel...same problem. So I decided to get creative, I put the wheel on the exhaust cam randomly and made a pencil mark on the cam at 0. Then I turned the cam both ways to its' max to see were I'm at. Luckily the exhaust cam worked out to be set at 0 so I then was able to adjusted it accordingly. I did the same for the intake cam which needed a little more work though.

The car is running fine. Before you felt the car start to really pick up at about 4000 rpm (which kind of sucked), now it seems that the acceleration is more even throughout starting at a much lower rpm. I didn't get a chance to go through all gears since we just got a lot of snow today so the roads are not that great. Eventually I will take my car to fine tune the cams to get the best possible results.

Thanks

So is the cam gears different on the 99 NA engine where my gear does not work? Maybe I need to revise my application list to exclude that model.

Also, I will be willing to refund your wheel if you feel you don't want it or can't use it. I don't want you to feel like you are stuck with something that you can't use.

Just let me know.

- Slater

[GTM2U]

No haven't done the timing belt yet...but it's time to do it know. I've brought my car to the dealer almost all the time. There once maybe only once or twice that I took it elsewhere.

A quick obsevation in this thread doesn't reveal that TDC ignition was ever established. Either the cam covers have to be off or #1 spark plug removed and a dowel inserted to establish when the piston is up.

The exhaust cam lobes #1 contacting the valves in the sequence after the crank is rotated about 180 from TDC.

If you don't know what you are doing this is not the time to play shade tree mechanic, get a manual or hire a professional before you start slipping cogs and belts that will bend valves.

Use nail polish to paint index marks on cams and crank pulley so they can be seen. If both the intake and exhaust valves are open then you are exactly 1 complete revolution off so using a proper box end wrench or socket pull it through in a clockwise direction to your crank pully mark then the cam position will be established. I don't know any short cuts for this critical operation, I would strongly advise against ever backing the crank up if you overshoot your crank mark. Bite the bullet and pull it through another 720 rather than risking it jumping time and then bending valves. It's a lot easier if all the spark plugs are out so you don't get valve springs and compression fighting you.

If you get confused walk away, take a break, read until it's clear in your head what you are trying to do. Know which way is advance and retard for each cam before you spoil a good engine. I'm not a Volvo expert these are just basics that must be followed when dealing with SOHC, DOHC or Quads.

Cheers,

GTM2U

[mikie]

So is the cam gears different on the 99 NA engine where my gear does not work? Maybe I need to revise my application list to exclude that model.

Also, I will be willing to refund your wheel if you feel you don't want it or can't use it. I don't want you to feel like you are stuck with something that you can't use.

Just let me know.

- Slater

I don't now for a fact if the cams on the 99 NA are different then other models but in my case they must be but it's okay cause I found a way and it works so it's still a pleasure to have your wheel.

Thanks Slater.