Now Carrying Cascade Audio Products!

[Owned]

I'm sure many of you have heard about Cascade's sound dampening products. They're also a sponsor of the VS S60 project car.

I'm now a distributor for them and have been able to work out a VS member discount with them. Pricing to follow, but if you're interested in something specific, shoot me a PM and I can get you a quote on it.

http://www.cascadeaudio.com/index.html

[NGB]

Adam, have you used RAAMmat? How does the cascade dampening sheets compare?

Can't wait to see pricing!

[Che'_Moderator]

I can saw this stuff roxors. Dont cheap out though. A car needs 5 gallons and spray it on.

[Owned]

If you're looking for quality butyl matting on a budget, Raammat is great. It's one of the cheapest quality products out there for mats. Cascade does make a butyl mat, called Gatorskin, but I have a feeling they only produce it to have a like product that will compete with the majority of the market. Though, I could be wrong about that. It is slightly thicker than BXT, however, it is also a bit more expensive. Spec sheets aside, I have not had any experience with Gatorskin as of yet.

What's great about Cascade's other products, though, is that they make a loaded vinyl sheet, which weighs less while dampening more than equal thickness butyl mats (obviously blowing asphalt based stuff out the water in the process). Because the vinyl sheet is not in a form somewhere between liquid and solid, as asphalt and butyl mats are (or try to be), it is less effected by temperature extremes. In terms of temperature resistance, the limiting factor is the adhesive, rather than the actual dampening material.

Their spray and paste dampening is also superior to rubberized mats, in terms of dampening VS weight and temperature resistance. Sometime next week, my first shipment from them will arive. While it will have all my displays and signs, more importantly I'll be getting some of their VB-1X liquid.

Edit,

My mistake, they also make another butyl mat called VMAX. I'll be better prepared with all this info when my information arives. :)

[drPheta]

Interested in pricing. Almost dropped $300 on RAAMat to sound proof my car, but limited funds kept me from getting the ball rolling. I may be going this route if it's cost effective.

[Owned]

Interested in pricing. Almost dropped $300 on RAAMat to sound proof my car, but limited funds kept me from getting the ball rolling. I may be going this route if it's cost effective.

Are you looking to do the whole car or just parts? If you're serious about doing the entire car, a liquid is going to make things a bit easier on you. It's less work to operate a spray gun than it is to apply all that mat. The most labor is in prepping the car for application, by removal or masking of everything that you don't want to spay.

As a package deal, I can do $330 and shipping for a 5 gallon bucket plus the nessisary spray gun. The price on Cascade's site for a 5 gal bucket of VB-1X WITHOUT the SG-1 spray gun is $350. A 5 gal bucket will give you a generous coating. When applied at similar thickness, VB-1X is about twice as effective as the typical mat, at roughly half the weight.

Don't try to spray this with your paint gun, you definitely will want to use the SG-1. The only other tool you would need is a compressor capable of 60-80 PSI, which can be rented if you do not have one or want to buy one.

[Mike H.]

Since this is your field. What are your thoughts of putting liquid dampening over the mats? Worth it? Or is it better the other way around (mat over liquid)? Or skip the mat altogether? TIA!

[Owned]

Also, for those who do not want to spray at all, it can be applied with a foam roller and brush. I will be doing a write-up on roller/brush application when I get my VB-1X next week, as I suspect this is the method most people here will want to use.

Since this is your field. What are your thoughts of putting liquid dampening over the mats? Worth it? Or is it better the other way around (mat over liquid)? Or skip the mat altogether? TIA!

Mat over liquid is "best", however is no different performance wise than liquid over mat.

-edit

Actually, I'm assuming quality matting with the above. If you're using something asphalt based, it would be best to remove that before liquid application. Should the asphalt release, melt, or crumble, as it's almost certain to, the effectivenss of the liquid would be reduced. I would not be so worried if it were a quality butyl mat.

[Mike H.]

Also, for those who do not want to spray at all, it can be applied with a foam roller and brush. I will be doing a write-up on roller/brush application when I get my VB-1X next week, as I suspect this is the method most people here will want to use.

Mat over liquid is "best", however is no different performance wise than liquid over mat.

-edit

Actually, I'm assuming quality matting with the above. If you're using something asphalt based, it would be best to remove that before liquid application. Should the asphalt release, melt, or crumble, as it's almost certain to, the effectivenss of the liquid would be reduced. I would not be so worried if it were a quality butyl mat.

I used Brown Bread by B-quiet which says it's butyl based. I really don't want to rip out the old matting to replace it with liquid. It's really messy stuff.

Any idea to get rid of the black gunk?

[drPheta]

Hmmm, I'll wait for the roller write up. I have no way of being able to spray anything since I don't have my own driveway/garage.

What's the drying time for the liquid?

[Owned]

I used Brown Bread by B-quiet which says it's butyl based. I really don't want to rip out the old matting to replace it with liquid. It's really messy stuff.

Any idea to get rid of the black gunk?

Brown bread is not butyl based, it's an asphalt base. They've since replaced Brown Bread with B-quiet Ultimate. Ultimate is butyl based, however, I believe there is more in the adhesive than in the actual layer of dampening.

Take a look at this page: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/heat/

You'll notice in the test results, that there is a large separation in failure time. The first 6 are not butyl based, including Brown Bread. Once you reach B-Quiet Ultimate, which is butyl based, there is a noticable increase in resistance to temperature.

This is the reason I would not put a liquid over asphalt matting. On many levels, the liquid alone will be superior to the mat, but when placed over a mat that is slowly losing contact with the surface it's used on, through melting and cracking/crumbling, you'll also be reducing the effects of the liquid product.

Hmmm, I'll wait for the roller write up. I have no way of being able to spray anything since I don't have my own driveway/garage.

What's the drying time for the liquid?

2-4 hours. 1 week till waterproof.

[Mike H.]

Brown bread is not butyl based, it's an asphalt base. They've since replaced Brown Bread with B-quiet Ultimate. Ultimate is butyl based, however, I believe there is more in the adhesive than in the actual layer of dampening.

Take a look at this page: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/heat/

You'll notice in the test results, that there is a large separation in failure time. The first 6 are not butyl based, including Brown Bread. Once you reach B-Quiet Ultimate, which is butyl based, there is a noticable increase in resistance to temperature.

This is the reason I would not put a liquid over asphalt matting. On many levels, the liquid alone will be superior to the mat, but when placed over a mat that is slowly losing contact with the surface it's used on, through melting and cracking/crumbling, you'll also be reducing the effects of the liquid product.

2-4 hours. 1 week till waterproof.

Thanks! That was interesting and insightful reading material. Now, I started doing my trunk with BrownBread with the plan of putting on SecondSkin's Spectrum (their liquid product) over the mats. Since you recommend not doing it, I want to off the BrownBread. What do you recommend to take it off?

[Owned]

Thanks! That was interesting and insightful reading material. Now, I started doing my trunk with BrownBread with the plan of putting on SecondSkin's Spectrum (their liquid product) over the mats. Since you recommend not doing it, I want to off the BrownBread. What do you recommend to take it off?

Start with a heat gun and putty knife. Watch how much heat you apply, though, because if it gets too hot it will completely liquify and make a nice mess. Perhaps a hair dryer would be best for the first timer. Leaving the car in the hot sun will be just about as good. Remove any left over spots with denatured alcohol. If that fails, which it shouldn't, move to Acetone.

Speaking of Acetone, if you want to test how much asphalt is in your mat, drop a piece into a cup of it and check back 30 minutes later. If it's a butyl based mat with excessive asphalt, like ED's mat, it will leach brown. If it's asphalt based, it will turn the acetone very brown. Good butyl mat will be very gooey, but little to no brown will be leaching out of it.

[Mike H.]

Start with a heat gun and putty knife. Watch how much heat you apply, though, because if it gets too hot it will completely liquify and make a nice mess. Perhaps a hair dryer would be best for the first timer. Leaving the car in the hot sun will be just about as good. Remove any left over spots with denatured alcohol. If that fails, which it shouldn't, move to Acetone.

Speaking of Acetone, if you want to test how much asphalt is in your mat, drop a piece into a cup of it and check back 30 minutes later. If it's a butyl based mat with excessive asphalt, like ED's mat, it will leach brown. If it's asphalt based, it will turn the acetone very brown. Good butyl mat will be very gooey, but little to no brown will be leaching out of it.

Thanks on the tip with the Acetone. I'll try it tomorrow at work. We have a few gallons of acetone sitting around. :P

[paulr]

is that they make a loaded vinyl sheet, which weighs less while dampening more than equal thickness butyl mats (obviously blowing asphalt based stuff out the water in the process). Because the vinyl sheet is not in a form somewhere between liquid and solid, as asphalt and butyl mats are (or try to be), it is less effected by temperature extremes.

Loaded vinyl in a car? Wow, that's absolutely insane. I've heard good things about it, like being able to take up to 32db off (forget what freq. range that was for). I was researching it for putting in walls, and it's some of the best stuff for in-house dampening (one site said it was comprable to lead, and I guess that's good ?). In a house application they said that installation had a lot to do with dampening, though - and you needed it to be very taught, amongst other things... I may have to look into this stuff when I get to the point of interior work...