Afghanistan, Iraq, And The War On Terrorism

[prasamin]

This is a new type of war where we have seen young men, women and children strap bombs to themselves and cause mass casualties. Believe me, nobody wants to be in that God-forsaken hellhole one second more than needed. What we don't want to do is to turn that area over to Iran, Syria or al-Qaeda. Could you imagine the funding made available from all of the oil money over there for terrorist training, and producing weapons of terror that any of those groups could unleash on America if we just up and left? We need to finish this the right way and if it includes gettin ugly well then so be it! The liberals have us playing "be nice" to these freakin terrorists which has extended this campaign. It's time to put up a battle like they have never seen before and end their ability to terrorize their new government which would cause these and other despots around the globe to rethink getting in the cross-hairs of the US Military ever again! We should start by ending the whole Hussein trial crapola and off him, al-Sadr and his militia.

we can finally agree on something, but forget a battle, we really need to Hiroshima/Nagasaki the region, that is the only way to really eliminate the problem. The more we battle, the more they breed.

[///RonalT5]

OK, the Saudi Government and the people are two WAY different things smart @$$. The government wants us there so they don't get overthrown and we will do whatever they want because we want there oil, don't be stupid. Second, the Kurds. I assume you know why he killed all of them, because the Kurd supported and helped Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. Of course Iran would have done the same thing if the Kurds were supporting Iraq, it is a viscous cycle. And here is a link to how many innocent Iraqies have been killed. Now, your annalogy to the Kurds in not accurate because those people were helping an enemy, these people were not (well, most of them). Saddam was wrong to do it, but so are we. Our main goal, we must remember, was to get terrorists, and when we couldn't get bin laden, we turned our focus to Iraq, where we had "informatino" that he was supporting terrorists, and had weapons of mass destruction, both of which are found out not to be true, as the second link shows below. And you saying I don't have information, how? I back up my points, and they are good ones that aren't just defending our stupid mistakes, rather they look at why these mistakes happen.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/" target="_blank"> http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2.../9/114244.shtml

~Mike

[starfish]

You are so wrong it is hilarious. Did you watch "In The Footsteps Of Bin Laden" on CNN? Probably not. So before you actually acuse someone of being wrong, make sure you are right. And by the way, take your conservative, oil wanting, arrogant, holy-land invading cronies, and actually open your eyes to the rest of the world and stop thinking that you are always right, CAUSE YOU'RE NOT!!! Maybe after 100,000 people die in Iraq , you will see (American troops I mean, we have already killed twice that number in innocent Iraqi citizens.

~Mike

Mike a major problem you have is your awareness of history began like when? Maybe 1 or 2 years ago? You were what something like what 3 years old during the Gulf War in 1991 weren't you? I have shoes older than you, hehee! You have never even voted once, never paid a tax bill and probably never had a job? Your still living at home sucking on your parents teet and haven't entered the adult world of personal responibility. But what you do have is some dopey misguided political based mental disorder that has you searching for any type of report on the internet that fullfills your liberal ideals with false or an incomplete context of reality. For the record - no I don't watch CNN. By looking at their ratings, I'm not alone! Hahaa! Mike there was no internet for me to get the information I wanted to know in 1991. I was there as an adult witnessing it on a daily basis.

[///RonalT5]

Mike a major problem you have is your awareness of history began like when? Maybe 1 or 2 years ago? You were what something like what 3 years old during the Gulf War in 1991 weren't you? I have shoes older than you, hehee! You have never even voted once, never paid a tax bill and probably never had a job? Your still living at home sucking on your parents teet and haven't entered the adult world of personal responibility. But what you do have is some dopey misguided political based mental disorder that has you searching for any type of report on the internet that fullfills your liberal ideals with false or an incomplete context of reality. For the record - no I don't watch CNN. By looking at their ratings, I'm not alone! Hahaa! Mike there was no internet for me to get the information I wanted to know in 1991. I was there as an adult witnessing it on a daily basis.

It is sad how you have resorted to personal trash talk cause I actually have a point. I won't begin to respond to such crap, I have better things to do, like finish my Stanford and UC applications.

~Mike

P.S. In responce to your last line, I am witnessing the demise of our country as we speek...

[prasamin]

Mike, I am a CNN guy myself, but honestly, neither Fox nor CNN are reference worthy lol.

[///RonalT5]

Mike, I am a CNN guy myself, but honestly, neither Fox nor CNN are reference worthy lol.

I know, it sucks there isn't a real un-biast news station out there.

~Mike

[USMC850T]

The Saudi's, and nationalist religeous extremists are two extremely different people Evolve. Just because a very small faction of a population wants something doesn't mean we make it happen. There are factions of the US and German population which would like to see the blacks and jews killed or sent back to Africa.

Should we take what they say and wish seriously? If we don't do it, and they blow something up, should we say oh stuff we should have seen this coming lets give them their way!!

Now here's another thing I have a problem with. You're so quick to write of the US military as murders for "killing the innocent Iraqi civilians" and have yet to provide any examples (note I provided you with 1), yet you are condoning the genocide of unarmed kurdish men women and children. No, they Iraqi's didn't commit genocide on them because they supported Iran. The Kurdish were not helping Iran...they could give a flying monkey about them. They were concerned with their own self detirminiation. I'm not sure where you got the helping Iran bit from. There had been some fighting between the iraqi military and kurdish rebels from the 60s through the 70s. During the Iran Iraq war, the fighting escalated into a small scale "de facto" civil war. The Iraqi response in 88 was systematic genocide. Iraqi aircraft began using chemical weapons against kurdish towns and villiages, instead of targeting kurdish combattants (like how our military operates ).

I do not think we turned to Iraq because we could not get bin laden. The campaign in Afghanistan has been largely successful. The taliban is no longer in power, and that was certainly one of the main objectives. OBL is another main objective, but there are some territorial issues which are coming into play. Pakistan is not exactly on the level with us, and they are not permitting us to operate in the mountains on their border, where it is accepted that OBL is operating from. I have already put out the reasons I feel we entered Iraq for, so I'm not going to re iterate them.

You article on the dealth toll in Iraq is not adequate to place blame for 100,000 deaths in the hands of American soldiers. It cites potiential sources for dealths as US airstrikes. I would also say that Iraqi AAA fire at our aircraft has a large hand in this too. What goes up certainly must come down (or maybe liberals subscribe to different laws of physics), and some of those shells are very large. AAA fire was one of the causes for destruction in civilian population centers during ODS. I'm sure you saw the video of the sky being lit up by fire hoses of AAA rounds. The unfortunate thing is that you're only seeing every 6th or 7th round as a tracer. Those go up, don't hit anything, and come down and blow up wherever they land. And there were undoubtedly millions of them shot at our aircraft during the first few hours and days of the campaign. The article you cite is pretty much saying that Iraq has become more dangerous after our invasion, which is a pretty valid point (incidentally not the point you are trying to make). Is it the only nation that this trend has ever been seen in? Certainly not. Colateral damage is quite unpleasant. It it not something that anyone fighting in a war wants, but it is an unfortunate reality of industrailized warfare. It sucks, but that's why we take every step possible to preserve innocent life.

Edited October 30, 2006 by USMC850T

[prasamin]

i really could care less about casualties of war as far as civilians are concerned.....to me, that's what they are, casualties of war.

let's go in there and do what everyone really wants to do, but is too afraid to talk about and admit.

[USMC850T]

It is sad how you have resorted to personal trash talk cause I actually have a point. I won't begin to respond to such crap, I have better things to do, like finish my Stanford and UC applications.

~Mike

P.S. In responce to your last line, I am witnessing the demise of our country as we speek...

I don't know what point you are talking about, but i think I have provided you with enough information to the contrary to show that you are wrong.

US troops fight Persian Gulf War. After victory, the US establishes a large permanent military presence in the region, including Saudi Arabia.

The presence in SA was limited to the Air assets REQUESTED by the Saudi Government for protection against potential iraqi invasion, and to enforce the no fly zones. There was no massive presence in SA postwar.

He turned on us when we invaded their holy land after the Gulf War.

Wrong. We did not invade his holy land. When you are invited by a nation to protect them, that is generally not considered to be an invasion.

take your conservative

ok?

oil wanting

You need oil just as much as I do Mr S60.

arrogant,

Now just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you have to call them names.

holy-land invading cronies

ok this is just stupid, we've addressed this already. Don't use buzzwords like "cronies" either. Think for yourself.

Maybe after 100,000 people die in Iraq , you will see (American troops I mean, we have already killed twice that number in innocent Iraqi citizens.

at best that is plain old wrong, but I think i've put it to bed already.

Oh and you don't need to tell us you are filling out applications to stanford or UC, we don't care. If you want to brag, let us know when you get in, and then when you graduate. I got into one of the top 10 music schools in the nation to play jazz guitar, but I don't feel the need to tell people about it. Heck, I've attended, and come next summer will have completed what is regarded as the most intense and thourough leadership evaluation and training programs on the planet. And then after than, I'll complete some of the best pilot training in the world too , but who's keeping score? Bragging like that doesn't make you seem smarter to anyone here. Making a coherent and logical arguement derived from emperical evidence does though, so try it sometime.

Edited October 30, 2006 by USMC850T

[USMC850T]

i really could care less about casualties of war as far as civilians are concerned.....to me, that's what they are, casualties of war.

let's go in there and do what everyone really wants to do, but is too afraid to talk about and admit.

Like turning the entire area into a parking lot? That would be a simple solution, but the entire arabic world is being represented by the current bunch of shitbirds causing trouble over there, and they are not doing enough to distance themselves from those said shitbirds. Violent Democratic revolution is probably the best thing that can happen in Iraq's surround nations. saudi Arabia is headed in that direction, as their has been much unrest in segments of the population regarding their desires for democratization. The SA government has also bowed some to those requests, putting up a large portion of their legislature's seats for the population to vote on. And by population, I mean only the men .

Personally I can't wait for America to develop an alternative to petroleum based energy. I hope we do it first, and subsequently the world comes to us for it. The day that we can stop worrying about and turn our backs on all the unstable radical theocratical shitbirds in power over there will be a happy day, I can only hope it comes in my lifetime.

[RAzOR]

Maxim Nov (current issued) has a fascinating report from an embed freelancer who gave up a lucrative Hollywood talent agency to find the facts. Check it out.

IMHO, we either need to start fighting this war to win or GTFO. I can't see the strategy thats in place there. Sit in Baghdad and handle whatever Tehran or Damascus serves up? What's currently going on doesn't make sense to me. But I am far from a foreign policy strategist. What's going on just seems sadly self-induced. We could beat a path to Tehran and Damascus simultaneously in 2-5 days with what we already have there and flip those governments. The Iranians have no such divisiveness in their culture and should reinstate thet Shah or some other secular gov't like Turkey. And the flow of nutjobs would cease.

And the bottom line for me in Nov is that the typical Democrat legislator is still far worse than an idiotic Republican.

Edited October 30, 2006 by RAzOR

[///RonalT5]

USMC, where do you get the info that we are winning the war? If you listen to any of the UN official and not to the lying president, you would know that the operations are going no where! You don't have to be a political genius to figure that out. And I mentioned the college thing becuase your friend starfish was hating on me and I wanted to show that I am not some CC kid who doesn't know what he is talking about. The kurds did help Iran, look it up on the web and give me a link that shows they didn't help. The bottom line is the war is failing, and we are just there doing nothing but F*(king up the country even more.

~Mike

[USMC850T]

USMC, where do you get the info that we are winning the war? If you listen to any of the UN official and not to the lying president, you would know that the operations are going no where!

I don't listen to the UN for much of anything. They are largely irrelevant when it comes to anything important except humanitarian relief operations. I certainly don't listen to anything that Kofi Anan had to say about Iraq, since he and Saddam had a nice little thing going called the oil for food scandal.

I don't let other people make up my mind for me, or tell me how to think. I don't believe it when someone on CNN or in some blog says the war is unwinnable. I read quite a bit, and form my own opinions.

What we are seeing in Iraq is typical of 4th generation warefare. We have the US, a large hegimonic power, fighting against much smaller, non-state insurgencies. The problem with this is that these non state actors are not fighting according to the rules of war. They fire from inside crowds of bystanders to protect themselves. They do not wear uniforms, and instead hide and seek protection from within the civillian population. We target with extreme discrimination, they blow up ied's and car bombs in the middle of markets, killing indiscriminately. The battlefield is chaotic, and engagements are not decisive. The insurgency can win by not losing, and we can lose by not winning. Until another nations grows powerfull enough, or percieves themselves to be powerfull enough to challenge our hegimonic domination of geopolitics, this will be the model for conflict. We will not have a worthy challenge to our hegimonic domination for 20+ years, but I have a feeling it will come from china, or india, or perhaps even russia again.

Don't get me wrong, the situation in Iraq is certainly not where we want it to be. There are some deep religeous / ethnic issues present which act only to fuel the violence. Until the Iraqi people are willing to put an end to the ethnic fighting, we will probably not see the situation improve very quickly.

And I know you say we should withdraw because we are worsening the situation, but withdrawing will not have your desired effect. In fact, it will do nothing. If we leave, the violence will worsen until we have one ethnic group which gains control. If that were to happen, we will have the same conditions that were present under saddam.

I will tell you again, the Kurds were not associated with the Iranians. They were fighting a small civil war against the Iraqi Govt, And regardless of whether they were or not, you are still condoning their genocide.

Edited October 30, 2006 by USMC850T

[Che'_Moderator]

USMC, where do you get the info that we are winning the war? If you listen to any of the UN official and not to the lying president, you would know that the operations are going no where! You don't have to be a political genius to figure that out. And I mentioned the college thing becuase your friend starfish was hating on me and I wanted to show that I am not some CC kid who doesn't know what he is talking about. The kurds did help Iran, look it up on the web and give me a link that shows they didn't help. The bottom line is the war is failing, and we are just there doing nothing but F*(king up the country even more.

~Mike

So do you think we should leave?

[merlin390]

If we were to leave Iraq now then things would really go to hell fast. Show me one thing the UN hasn't screwed up. We need to get the reporters out of the warzone and let the soldiers do their jobs. The reality of war does not need to be pumped into every livingroom in America so people can watch it over dinner.