Us Democracy In A Crisis?

[Zappo]

Well you guys all have intresting views...some far more differing than mine. Personally I see our democracy in shambles. Less than half the population even votes for our presidents...making the winner of the election only winning by basically a fourth of the people. Our democracy isn't even widespread to all people. I mean that is the whole meaning to democracy in the first place....to have everyone vote as a cummulative whole so that everyone has an equal say in things. And the two party election system...wtf is that. Obviously it controls the extremists out of the running, but when both parties are truely only intrested in complete power and not of the people we are all to often voting for the better of two evils. There have been a lot of corrupt officials coming into the publics view lately too...but that is nothing new. It's just that it is finally being shown on tv, in magazines, etc. Lastly I don't see how we can force democracy on others. (dawns flamesuit) I mean we violating rules of engagement, tortured people, etc. I don't care who they are, we still did it.

I think a lot of you need to think of what a democracy is first...not just think if we are in a crisis. When you see that we are very powerful, but only a small amount of the population is responsible for putting people in power...iono but to me that just isn't a democracy working to it's potential.

People have the choice to vote or not, assuming they could legally vote in the first place. Low voter registration has been going on for a LONG time, it isn't something that just showed up in the past few elections. If a person chooses not to have a voice in government, it is their choice. However, if they don't vote, I don't want to hear them bitching about the results.

Should more people vote? Hell yes, but you can't make them do it.

I don't like the 2 party system either, but it is hard for the other parties to gain on the 2 giants. It has been that way for some time now, and I don't see this changing any time soon either.

[Zappo]

Thanks for the clarification George. Yea, Im thinking about the people that are of the voting age...not the actual registered voters.

I don't believe that our Democracy has gone to shit overnight, nor is it shit now. It just seems retarded that we wage a war that the masses do not support. Then you have people who are told they do not support our troops or our government because of that. On the flipside you got people who are completely unwavering and they are seen as ignorant because they don't look at what is going on around them. Iono, its all politics baby!

Bush had an agenda when he first took office. He wanted Sadam out of power. Was he finishing something daddy couldn't, or did he believe that Sadam was truely the axis of evil? Only GW knows for sure. He fully believes he is doing the right thing and thinks when it is done that the people will think he was right all along. Is he right or is he wrong? Time will tell.

You can support the troops and not support the war. Republicans want you to believe that isn't possible. They seem to want to polarize all the issues.

"Vote for a Democrat and Bin Laden wins!" BS. Take away my freedom of choice and Bin Landen wins.

"Don't criticize the president. We need to support him in these difficult times." No, I am entitled to my opinion and I have a right to voice it. If I think Bush handled something totally wrong, I am going to say so. Suppressing the freedom to criticize the government are what communist countries do.

[starfish]

the problem is the foreign policy, and everything that the current "democracy" is doing/not doing.

the democratic process still lives on, but the individuals within it are the problem.

Why do so many people choose to look at this government have a self-loathing critical view?

It was not OUR foreign policy that got us into a war, it was THEIR foreign policy that got US into a war! Remember?

For the democratic process to "still live on", re-evaluate your resolve.

[USMC850T]

You two are quoting different numbers. 60-70% turn out is for registered voters, not voting aged citizens. There is a big difference in the percentages.

You are right, types like Abramoff are there to corrupt whoever they can with money to get their way. What party you are with doesn't matter.

Since when did American turn to shit? We are the most stable democracy in the world. When the Turkish people found out their president lied to them, they had riots and people died. When our presidents are found out to be lying us, what happens? Same thing that always happens. People write editorials in papers, comedians make jokes about it, protesters protest and supporters say it was justified. No one dies though.

Assuming American is "shit" now, how many years back do you believe it wasn't shit?

you're right - Total turnout in 04 was 122 million out of 220 million voting age citizens. 55.3% turnout - the highest since 1968.

Lobbyists are not there to corrupt, that's a pretty cynical outlook on their role in the political process. They are there to influence policy on behalf of their client groups, which often represent a huge segment of the population.

When I said America has gone to shit it's kind of a sarcastic tounge in cheek thing. We have always had problems since the early days, nothing has changed and nothing will. democracy is an imperfect system of government, not that there is a perfect form though. I agree that we've got it very good here, and the problems we face now are not as major as they were 60 years ago. I do find it silly to think that our problems today were caused signle-handedly by one particular ideology or political party though.

Edited December 19, 2006 by USMC850T

[prasamin]

i hate politicians.

[///RonalT5]

It was not OUR foreign policy that got us into a war, it was THEIR foreign policy that got US into a war! Remember?

O, damn, I didn't know Alqeda had a foreign policy... THEY DON'T. They hate us and it wasn't SADAAM who attacked us F tard, it was a totally different organization that Sadaam hated, and it has been proven numerous times. Bush wanted Sadaam out to please his daddy and finsh the job, end of discusion.

^^^ +1 for Pras.

~Mike

[Zappo]

Lobbyists are not there to corrupt, that's a pretty cynical outlook on their role in the political process. They are there to influence policy on behalf of their client groups, which often represent a huge segment of the population.

I meant his type, not all lobbyists.

When I said America has gone to shit it's kind of a sarcastic tounge in cheek thing. We have always had problems since the early days, nothing has changed and nothing will. democracy is an imperfect system of government, not that there is a perfect form though. I agree that we've got it very good here, and the problems we face now are not as major as they were 60 years ago. I do find it silly to think that our problems today were caused signle-handedly by one particular ideology or political party though.

Or even 35-40 years ago with Viet Nam. Racial tension has gone way down compared to the 50's and 60's, and we don't have the major war protests like the late 60's and 70's. Plus, there are a hell of a lot less hippies around now! :lol: