CarVolvo Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I had the new 86 240 started. It ran rough but it would always start.Suddenly...just after the first snow.. it stopped!!! So i thought the pump or the relay has had it..i replaced the pump from a 87 240 parts car and the relay from the same car which was fully operational and ran well.. but the 86 still wont start! (by the way .. will the white pump relay fit both cars..can they be interchanged?)I checked the diagrams from my haynes magazine and it says i can jump the fuel pump by jumping terminal 87/2 and 30 on the relay socket. I checked the power on these on both ignition mode and off mode there isnt any power .. but there is on terminal 85.I have already checked the fuse in the engine bay and actually tested the line going past the fuse and there is power.Terminal 30 has a fairly thick red wire. Does this mean it is coming straight from the battery to the engine bay fuse right to the fuse box? I tested the fuse and power is going through there too... so whats left to check? Could there be a break in the line between the fuse panel in the car and that connection or is there somethign else which is stopping the power to the relay?any help would be much appreciated.. its brr cold out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Fat Tigers Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 A quick test of the pumps would be to jumper the #6 & #4 fuses together, an alligator clip jumper works well for this. This should run both pumps, then try starting. For reference: http://www.threefattigers.com/Protocore/Vo...uelPumpJump.jpgThe same fuel pump relay is used for all LH 2.2 & 2.4 cars, so that's '85 - '93. Terminal #30 of the socket is power from the blade fuse in the engine compartment, this would be hot at all times.If the fuel ECU is not receiving the RPM signal from the ignition ICU, the ECU will not close the second relay inside the fuel pump relay which is used for the fuel pumps.If there is any question concerning the ignition system, a quick test would be to pull the blade fuse, spray some starting fluid into the air box cover, then try to start the car. If the engine is then eager to try and start, odds are the issue is fuel related, but if not, odds are it's the ignition system. Make sure all connections at the coil are in good order, check for spark.You might also unplug the MAF sensor and see if it will start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarVolvo Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 A quick test of the pumps would be to jumper the #6 & #4 fuses together, an alligator clip jumper works well for this. This should run both pumps, then try starting. For reference: http://www.threefattigers.com/Protocore/Vo...uelPumpJump.jpgThe same fuel pump relay is used for all LH 2.2 & 2.4 cars, so that's '85 - '93. Terminal #30 of the socket is power from the blade fuse in the engine compartment, this would be hot at all times.If the fuel ECU is not receiving the RPM signal from the ignition ICU, the ECU will not close the second relay inside the fuel pump relay which is used for the fuel pumps.If there is any question concerning the ignition system, a quick test would be to pull the blade fuse, spray some starting fluid into the air box cover, then try to start the car. If the engine is then eager to try and start, odds are the issue is fuel related, but if not, odds are it's the ignition system. Make sure all connections at the coil are in good order, check for spark.You might also unplug the MAF sensor and see if it will start.Thanks 3FT for coming to the rescue again.One question.. why is there no power going to 30? is the fuel ecu cutting it out or is there a possible break in the system?The fuel relay seems to be clicking like crazy even after i stop cranking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Fat Tigers Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Terminal #30 is connected directly to the blade fuse holder, the other leg of the blade fuse holder is connected directly to the positive battery terminal. There is no ECU control over this aspect of power distribution. Therefore if you are not seeing power at terminal #30, but you do see power in the blade fuse holder socket, try another fuse even if the current fuse looks ok, check for continuity between the blade fuse holder and terminal #30. If the blade fuse holder is still original, I would replace it, get one from wal-mart/autozone/canadian tire/or similarz, one that has a rubber cap to keep out moisture is best.The clicking relay could be related to the lack of power at terminal #30, or it might be a fault in the ECU ground point located at the fuel rail bolts, or it might indicate an ECU failure or possible harness issue. You might also unplug the fuel ECU and check the connector for any signs of corrosion. It could also indicate a bad fuel pump relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewBishop Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I had a 240 DL that did the similer thing dose it sound like it is fule deprived because it may be the cold start sensor witch is what was rong with mine but it is just replacing a wire in the harnes not too easy but it is doable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarVolvo Posted February 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 I had a 240 DL that did the similer thing dose it sound like it is fule deprived because it may be the cold start sensor witch is what was rong with mine but it is just replacing a wire in the harnes not too easy but it is doableWell guess what.. I tried the jumper thing..and i could even hear the pump going when i did.. and it started up no problems!I drove it around the block.. keep in mind its 45 F today.I took the jumpers off and it kept on starting. So whats the issue when it does this..weak power to the pump? or is there the issue of the cold start sensor? where is this sensor and whats the best way to test it.Im sure it will keep starting again..but i want to preven this issue in the future..so any ideas what i should be after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Fat Tigers Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 You said originally that you saw no power at terminal #30 of the fuel pump relay socket, this should be hot at all times 24/7. As this terminal is connected directly to the battery positive terminal, your test result indicates there is a fault somewhere in the power distribution to this terminal, somewhere in the wiring harness or the blade fuse holder. Fuse #6 is hot at all times, it gets it's power from another point (the junction block next to the battery). When you jumper fuse #6 to fuse #4, you are bypassing the fuel pump relay and it's power supply altogether, so the relay and power to terminal #30 becomes moot. Odds are you still have some sort of fault in the wiring to terminal #30. I would start by replacing the blade fuse holder with one that has a nice rubber cap to keep out moisture, and if that doesn't solve it, I would consider running your own new fused wire between the positive battery terminal and terminal #30 of the fuel pump relay socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarVolvo Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 You said originally that you saw no power at terminal #30 of the fuel pump relay socket, this should be hot at all times 24/7. As this terminal is connected directly to the battery positive terminal, your test result indicates there is a fault somewhere in the power distribution to this terminal, somewhere in the wiring harness or the blade fuse holder. Fuse #6 is hot at all times, it gets it's power from another point (the junction block next to the battery). When you jumper fuse #6 to fuse #4, you are bypassing the fuel pump relay and it's power supply altogether, so the relay and power to terminal #30 becomes moot. Odds are you still have some sort of fault in the wiring to terminal #30. I would start by replacing the blade fuse holder with one that has a nice rubber cap to keep out moisture, and if that doesn't solve it, I would consider running your own new fused wire between the positive battery terminal and terminal #30 of the fuel pump relay socket.As always..thanks for your advice people especially 3FatT! I will double check the fuse.. i had another 240 with the similar problem in the past so i know where your coming from.Im just a bit surprised that after i removed the jumpers and then then stopped the car.. the car started up again with no problems. This is particularly strange because i had replaced the relay and the external fuel pump on this and it would still not start. Actually i went outside and started it again as im writing this and it works without the fuse jumping technique.I am guessing that I shall change the lead to #30 .. i didnt test it because it started !Thanks and will report back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.