Starting Woes

[MBT]

Hi.

For the past few months my car has been doing something very odd. Every once in a while when I try to start the car it would lock the doors and turn the headlights on, but would not start. The dash lights would go nuts, but no starter action. Sometimes it would lock the radio too and make me put the code in.

Usually the car would start the next time or if I just held the key in for a second longer, but this morning (isn't that how most of these posts start? ) it decided to simply stop starting.

The symptoms:

Upon turning the key to position 3 the doors lock themselves (central lock), headlights go on and stay on till the key is turned back to position 2, dashboard lights go on (a few, not all, probably because some are empty and some are dead).

Battery reads 12v before the key is turned, have not checked the reading while the key is in position 3.

Almost every time I try to do anything electric, like moving the driver seat (power) or lowering the windows the doors also lock.

I've searched the forum and found a few suggestions. I've cleaned the battery connections, removed fuse #6(central lock), removed relay for central lock and alarm. None of these things helped. Ofcourse with the fuse out the doors stopped locking themselves, but other symptoms were present and the car would not start.

Currently everything is back in place, but I've disconnected the battery and waiting to see if that makes a bit of difference. I've also read that the ignition switch might be to blame. What symptoms point to which portion of the switch? I'd like to hear from someone that my symptoms are those of a faulty ELECTRICAL portion of the ignition switch or the MECHANICAL.

If after I re-connect my battery the car does not start I will go to Schucks and have the battery tested, but what I've read so far suggests that the tests might not be conclusive.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Mike

[Ozark Lee]

When you removed the alarm relay (210 / 211) did you jumper between the sockets associated with relay terminals 50E and 50F? If not, it will never start. Back to the original problem. It sounds like the electrical portion of the ignition switch to me.

...Lee

[MBT]

No, I did not jumper 50E and 50F. Does it say on them which one is which? Also, what would you use to jumper? What gauge wire?

Mike

[Ozark Lee]

If you look at the bottom of the relay the numbers are molded into the plastic next to the terminals. The two that need to be jumpered are on the socket associated with the 210 portion of the relay and they in the center of that relay. Just about any wire will do, there isn't much current on it I've used some 22 gauge that I had laying around. It is easier to plug the jumper in if you get a couple of spade terminals for the ends of the wire.

I'm a little confused from your post, is the 210/211 relay out of the socket right now? If so, it will definitely keep the car from starting.

If the relay is out, this presents an opportunity to eliminate the alarm / imobilizer as cause of the starting problem by jumpering it.

...Lee

[MBT]

It was out at one time, not jumped, so guess that explains why that experiment did not yield any results.

I will go and see what I can do to jump it.

Thanks for the info. I will report back as soon as I can.

Regards,

Mike

[KlausC]

The symptoms:

Upon turning the key to position 3 the doors lock themselves (central lock), headlights go on and stay on till the key is turned back to position 2, dashboard lights go on (a few, not all, probably because some are empty and some are dead).

Battery reads 12v before the key is turned, have not checked the reading while the key is in position 3.

Almost every time I try to do anything electric, like moving the driver seat (power) or lowering the windows the doors also lock.

Mike

The door locking is quite puzzling. That sounds like there is a short in the wiring where it goes through the door hinge. You will need to do some continuity checking with a multimeter.

There is nothing wrong with your battery!

It is possible that you have a problem with the electrical portion of the ignition switch, but that would not have an effect on the alarm system or the door locks.

The headlights are supposed to go off in pos III, which indicates a problem with the electrical portion of the ignition switch. Which means that you have more than one problem.

Replacing the bulbs in your instrument cluster is not a difficult task, just leave out the one for "service".

[MBT]

So... I jumped the 50E and 50F and the same symptoms were noticed. Lighs on, no cranking, etc.

With the jumper gone, the lights don't come on. So, the jumper is working and the relay has nothing to do with it. One thing out of the way. Next.

KlausC, you bring up a good point. More than one issue might be the problem.

Where should I test for continuity here? Where do I start? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! (WHY ME!?)

Is there a schematic somewhere that would show me the connections that might be crossing the central locking (note, all doors get locked simultaniosly). This suggests that the short (if there is one) is happening with the central locking system or the driver door since closing that door triggers the central lock.

[Ozark Lee]

Is there a schematic somewhere that would show me the connections that might be crossing the central locking

You obviously don't have the manual.

Download it here:

http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/downloads/Volvo_850.zip

Unzip it an look for the file named system wiring diagrams.pdf.

Also see anti theft system.pdf and keyless entry system.pdf.

...Lee

[MBT]

Another quick update.

I was about to try start the car up with lights in positions other than OFF.

When I switch the lights to the second position, the door locks close.

What in the heck is this?

Will look at the PDFs in a second.

Mike

[MBT]

Well... my issue has been resolved... for now at least.

I went to clean the ground connections and took a second look at the battery connections. They were rather covered in gunk and what not. I cleaned the connections and scuffed them with metal tools and reconnected everything.

Bam, the car started right up.

The bottom line is our cars get all weird when there is anything wrong with batteries or battery connections.

Mike

[Ozark Lee]

I'm glad it was that easy for you. I was just about to send you under the car to look at the ground straps to the chassis.

...Lee