snookwhaler Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 I put a post up a few months back about a rough idle problem. I finally had some time to mess around with the car. This car is a 1994 850 Non Turbo.I dug into it this week and found all the vacuum elbows on the "tree" broken. I also found several behind the air box broken. I have fixed all the elbows that I could see and reach around the top of the engine. I guess I got excited prematurely. Now the "rough idle" is even rougher. More like a slight "chug". It is more pronounced in Drive or Reverse.I have replaced the cap, rotor, plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, torque arm bushing and vacuum elbows. I also removed the thermostat from the airbox and blocked the flapper to the "cold air only position". I am now thinking that it may be the Air Mass Meter or the O2 sensor. Is there anyway to differentiate between the two as far as symptoms?Someone asked if I used Volvo 3 prong plugs once? I cannot remember. I will pull them Sunday and find out. The car runs flawlessly off idle and is smooth as silk with plenty of power otherwise...Frustrating...Any help here is greatly appreciated!! I am driving this car daily now. This problem is very annoying. Especially in heavy traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Lee Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Codes?I can't hurt to spray down the AMM/MAF sensor with cleaner. Don't scrub it or even touch it. While you are in the area I would check / clean the throttle body with carb cleaner....Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueSteer Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Get an air/fuel reading at idle, this can tell you alot. Id check the Idle air controller, throttle position sensor, mass airflow sensor, and oxygen sensors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookwhaler Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Thanks guys.... I'll clean the MAF and check the plug type tomorrow. I'll also clean the throttle body and IAC. Where is the IAC on these cars? On the throttle body? If it is gummed up can I use carb. cleaner? Will I need new gaskets?I checked the codes on this car a couple years ago using that little black box, red led and jumper wire. I cannot find the instructions for checking it? Is there a bay 13 write up on this?Thanks again!AJEdit: I found the write up on checking codes. No codes are stored. I got a 1,1,1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM850R Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Also double check the gap of the plugs when you have them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martz0r Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 seafoam! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookwhaler Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Ok..... Here is what I did today:1.) Checked the codes. No codes stored (1,1,1).2.) Pulled the plugs. It has Bosch Supers in it. Plugs looked clean and nothing unusual.3.) Pulled the TPS. It was full of oil. I actually had to pour a few cc's of oil out of it. I was not sure what to do, so I sprayed the crap out of the entire thing with contact cleaner. Connections were full of oil too. I cleand and greased the connections.4.) Cleaned the Throttle Body (without pulling it). It was pretty dirty but not too bad.5.) Pulled the IAC. I was not sure how to clean it. So I just left it alone. These connections were green and corroded. I cleaned and greased the plug on both sides.6.) Pulled the MAF and cleaned with CRC MAF cleaner. These connections were green and corroded. I cleaned and greased the plug on both sides.7.) Pulled the wires, cap and rotor. Wires are fine (new). Cap and rotor had a little carbon trail but not too bad. Contacts are still smooth.8.) I put everything back together and started the car. It is a little better but I can still feel the rough idle chug. I pulled the MAF wire with the car off and started the car. Car ran like crap so this proves the MAF is working right? I put the wire back on and the car runs like it used too. I reset the codes after this.Could this problem be as simple as the wrong plugs? I thought I had put Volvos in it. Turns out they are just Bosch Supers.Is there a way to test and Clean the IAC?Is there a way to test and Clean the O2 sensors? I did not pull these.AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Lee Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 3.) Pulled the TPS. It was full of oil. I actually had to pour a few cc's of oil out of it. I was not sure what to do, so I sprayed the crap out of the entire thing with contact cleaner. Connections were full of oil too. I cleand and greased the connections.Curious. I wonder where that is coming from.5.) Pulled the IAC. I was not sure how to clean it. So I just left it alone. These connections were green and corroded. I cleaned and greased the plug on both sides.The MAF cleaner you bought will usually do it, or carb cleaner, I've even hear of folks using brake cleaner but that sounds a bit harsh to me. The ends should "jiggle" freely.6.) Pulled the MAF and cleaned with CRC MAF cleaner. These connections were green and corroded. I cleaned and greased the plug on both sides.A quick and dirty MAF test I use is to unplug it at idle. If it idles smoother with the MAF unplugged then the MAF itself is suspect. Note that the car will not run well at speed with the MAF unplugged. It will usually set a CEL when you unplug it.Plug wise, I think you are OK if you are running FR7DC Super Coppers. Check the gap, they should be around .028. Better to error low than high on the gap.Is there a way to test and Clean the O2 sensors? I did not pull these.Anything that is complete failure or even an out of range error will set a CEL and, while I've heard of people cleaning the O2 sensors, I have never seen it actually work. ...Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookwhaler Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Thanks Lee...I just cleaned the IAC with the MAF cleaner. It was really easy. It racks back and forth freely as you say. It was really clean in there already. The hardest part was getting those factory clamps back on there.Just went for a test drive. Same as before.I think I'm going to try the Volvo plugs Monday and see if that does it.That makes sense about the O2 sensors.Where do you think the oil came from in the TPS? Is it safe to assume that this part is toast because of the oil?AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikv11 Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 ...3.) Pulled the TPS. It was full of oil. I actually had to pour a few cc's of oil out of it. I was not sure what to do, so I sprayed the crap out of the entire thing with contact cleaner. Connections were full of oil too. I cleand and greased the connections....One time when I cleaned the throttle body, I forgot to remove the TPS first. So the cleaner got into the TPS. Car idled rough with intermittent stumble until I replaced the TPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookwhaler Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 One time when I cleaned the throttle body, I forgot to remove the TPS first. So the cleaner got into the TPS. Car idled rough with intermittent stumble until I replaced the TPS.This makes sense. So it is safe to assume that the TPS is toast if it was full of oil?AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatespeedbumps Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 This makes sense. So it is safe to assume that the TPS is toast if it was full of oil?AJHard to say. I've seen volvo TPS's endure a lot and still keep ticking. Is the car still idiling rough even after all the things you have done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookwhaler Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Yes....... The idle is rough. Enough to be annoying at a stop light or in lots of traffic.When I first come to a stop the idle is pretty smooth. The longer I sit there.... The worse it gets until a point. Then is just an annoying "chug". As soon as I hit the throttle, the engine smooths out. The car will run like a banshee for a non turbo. No miss or stumble anywhere in the powerband otherwise. The only other strange thing I noticed is that the car will not rev beyond about 5500 RPM. Well short of red line or even close to it.I was going to get new plugs today but I was not sure what to do after finding the TPS problem. I dont like throwing money at parts to solve a problem. I would like to replace the "culprit" and be done with it.The funny thing about this whole fiasco is this...... I went and test drove a 96 turbo 3 years ago before I bought this particular car. The other car had the EXACT same symptom. I passed on the car because of the problem. Now here it is..... So I really want to know what the problem is. I plan to get a wagon soon. Probably a 70. I would like to know what to look for when these problems arise.AJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM850R Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 So what was the gap on the plugs you have in there right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atefitty Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 I put a post up a few months back about a rough idle problem. I finally had some time to mess around with the car. This car is a 1994 850 Non Turbo.I dug into it this week and found all the vacuum elbows on the "tree" broken. I also found several behind the air box broken. I have fixed all the elbows that I could see and reach around the top of the engine. I guess I got excited prematurely. Now the "rough idle" is even rougher. More like a slight "chug". It is more pronounced in Drive or Reverse.I have replaced the cap, rotor, plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, torque arm bushing and vacuum elbows. I also removed the thermostat from the airbox and blocked the flapper to the "cold air only position". I am now thinking that it may be the Air Mass Meter or the O2 sensor. Is there anyway to differentiate between the two as far as symptoms?Someone asked if I used Volvo 3 prong plugs once? I cannot remember. I will pull them Sunday and find out. The car runs flawlessly off idle and is smooth as silk with plenty of power otherwise...Frustrating...Any help here is greatly appreciated!! I am driving this car daily now. This problem is very annoying. Especially in heavy traffic.Have you checked for a intake manifold leak at he gasket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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