JHEIII874T5M Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Thanks Joseph.When I think about it, it has been said here that 96-97 tuned/chipped turbo ecu will work on 94-95, deleting egr. Now, from pinned thread, I think 96-97 has 16T, so that implies 16T-tuned ecu will work on 15G fine. Mine of course is the opposite, I will try to use a 15G-tuned ecu from 95 to my car with 16T. So, in addition to yours and Mike's input, I'm comfortable with the purchase. If everything works out, can I hope to see 240whp on this baby at 17psi? That was my stated goal from the get-go when I purchased this car (240whp at 18psi actually). Maybe dyno would be in order when all this is done.Welcome Orlee All 850 Turbo autos came with 15Gs (94/95 had conical outlet turbine housings and 96/97 had straight outlet turbine housings).The 96/97 Euro (and Canadian Spec) 850R Manuals came with a 16T straight outlet turbine housing.With a 2.5" or 3" mandrel bent turboback exhaust and holding 17-18 PSI you should definitely see about 240whp. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 My 94 855 Turbo/AT happened to have 16T, a little upgrade from stock 15G, not much bigger from what I understand. It's worth mentioning that I run on stock 94 ecu (EGR and all) and able to boost 12psi with MBC.I'm looking at used ST chipped ecu, 17psi and tuned for 95R with 15G - will this be a drop-in for my 94 Turbo with 16T?Also, would it matter if the ecu was from manual car and not auto?ThanksSo to be honest I know nothing about tuning. If certain modifications are made to a car is the car tuned hypothetically with say a computer program using principles of physics, or must one go to a shop and have a load put on the engine. Feel free to send a link if you know of a good read!!! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHEIII874T5M Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 So to be honest I know nothing about tuning. If certain modifications are made to a car is the car tuned hypothetically with say a computer program using principles of physics, or must one go to a shop and have a load put on the engine. Feel free to send a link if you know of a good read!!! JOne of, if not the best reads for these cars are off of Jan Ellwoth's site. http://www.wothrline.com/Cars_engine/cars_engine_index.htmhttp://www.wothrline.com/Cars_engine/HW/Hardware.htmhttp://www.wothrline.com/Cars_engine/Engin...performance.htmhttp://www.wothrline.com/Cars_engine/Engin...gine_tuning.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlc Posted November 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 So to be honest I know nothing about tuning. If certain modifications are made to a car is the car tuned hypothetically with say a computer program using principles of physics, or must one go to a shop and have a load put on the engine. Feel free to send a link if you know of a good read!!! JHey, I'm a Turbo newbie myself and get my bits of info from here and there. The FAQ pinned thread is a good read. A lot of things, you would figure out yourself as you experience them and with help from good folks in the forum. I wouldn't know how to spell MBC before I got my turbo 855 lol, much less how to adjust them. But you learn as you go along - why wouldn't I boost beyond 9psi before for example, then I would try to search what could be affecting boost, how to test leak, what can I do about it (turns out I have a leaky BOV and decided to replace it with original 'bypass' setup using CBV, problem solved!). Then I learned stock ecu can only allow up to certain boost before you start to experience 'cutting-off' or 'bogging-down', thus requiring 'tuned' ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 One of, if not the best reads for these cars are off of Jan Ellwoth's site. http://www.wothrline.com/Cars_engine/cars_engine_index.htmhttp://www.wothrline.com/Cars_engine/HW/Hardware.htmhttp://www.wothrline.com/Cars_engine/Engin...performance.htmhttp://www.wothrline.com/Cars_engine/Engin...gine_tuning.htmGood reads!! Thanks for the links, they gave me some good baseline knowledge not hearsay. Still doesn't answer some of my questions of "how a map is made" but I do appreciate the reads. Hopefully and I quote....... "1999 a Swedish automotive magazine called Bilsport (issue 1-2 1999) made an interesting article together with Engine R&D at Volvo Cars in Gothenburg. For this reportage they had one stock manual S70 T5 MY97 with claimed 240hp/330Nm and they used a chassis dynamometer at Volvo Cars.Many tuning companies were invited, but in the end only two companies managed to deliver some material for this test!With stock ECM the car delivered 247hp at 5100rpm and 347Nm at 4500rpm.BSR sent a chip for ECM installation and with this the car gave 256hp at 5100rpm and 435Nm at 3000rpm. The re-flashed ECM from TME also delivered 256hp at 5100rpm and 422Nm at 3000rpm.During the test the engineers performed measuring of the exhaust temperature and both tuning calibration created enormous amount of heat. TME stated that they always recommended their customer to upgrade to a cat.back exhaust system when upgrading the ECM with their SW and I think that this is well thought out!The BSR upgrade showed slightly higher boost, but it didn’t deliver any more power.The conclusion is that it is the exhaust back pressure that will set the limit of the power gain and no matter what boost and claims, the engine will not reach more than 256hp and at 5100rpm there’ s still another 1400rpm left to the rev limit"the tunes have made vast improvement since 99"!! Granted it sounds like this was all with stock exhaust.ThanksJason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomdude Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 interesting..... good thing i run an open d.p. . so in regards to the o.p. so w/ his 15 or 17 psi chip, the 15g will still pull better to redline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelostartof Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 interesting..... good thing i run an open d.p. . so in regards to the o.p. so w/ his 15 or 17 psi chip, the 15g will still pull better to redline?if it is a stock DP then you are just wasting your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlc Posted November 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 if it is a stock DP then you are just wasting your timeLol, it will be worth it, we'll see what almost twice the boost from stock (assuming I can peak at 17-18 psi) will do to the car. I do understand from what I've read so far that higher boost does not necessarily translate to more power, at least not linearly, with restictive stock exhaust system. I do have better cat-back already. I've set my goal at certain level from the get-go and have ruled-out investing on dp from the beginning, so what it will be will be. At most, I might install a free-flowing cat, been seing them going for under $100.So we'll see, when I'm all set, I would be happy to share the result, hopefully with numbers.Wish me luck!OrleeC :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomdude Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 a 24" open stock dp is no bettr than the full stock exhuast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelostartof Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 the stock downpipe is 90% of the bottle neck in the exhaust on these carsI have have seen a few BIG turbo 850's that ran a stock DP just cut right before the cat that spooled slow and just ran odd. installed a 3" downpipe and ran just that open or on others installed a full 3" turbo back and the car picked up stupid amounts of power, spooled like it was on a stock turbo just stupid fast. The stock DP cut before the cat made full 20psi but say 4500, added a full 3" turbo back and full 20psi was @ around 3200rpm so. never mind the huge amounts of torque you gain from that which most of the time translates into much more power down low and all the way to redline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHEIII874T5M Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 When you guys say open downpipe... does it still have a cat attached on the end or not? If it still has the stock cat attached on the end, that's more like open catback If it doesn't, and you're actually open downpipe then kudos to you.Personally I ran an open, stock angled downpipe (cut before the cat, so catless) on my 19T setup for a couple of weeks and it spooled just as fast and ran just as hard as it does with my current dual outlet 3" catless turboback.But for argument's sake and helping get more 3" turboback cars... I'll say Mike is right and the stock downpipe is useless :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelostartof Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 yea but that was an already TD04HL car, try that with a big big big 70 trim T4 compressor and a stage 3 turbine wheel in a .63 housing with a conical outlet .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzimark Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Joseph, would you mind taking that a step further and tell us what kind of gains will be seen by switching from the stock DP to a 3" with the stock ECU and a 16T or 15G? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelostartof Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 a local 94' 855T I removed a stock conical DP and installed a 3" DP and a 3" cat that necked back down to stock exhaust. Picked up about 2psi of boost and the owner said the car pulls really really strong up top where as before it would almost run out of go around 5k now there is a good amount of power and it pulls really hard all the way to redline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHEIII874T5M Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 yea but that was an already TD04HL car, try that with a big big big 70 trim T4 compressor and a stage 3 turbine wheel in a .63 housing with a conical outlet ....Ah, now that's some ninja shit that goes beyond everyday ninja shit... pulling some Chuck Norris ninja shit over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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