Tax Reform

[Che'_Moderator]

The problem with the example is that your comparing a sale to a tax. Apple vs. oranges, not the same thing.

Here in lies the problem. The man paying the majority of the beer tab would also get the majority of the beer. The other tab payers would be stock holders in the bar, in turn making a profit from the drinking. The poor would not be able to buy beer.

Let’s not leave our brothers behind to create a country between rich and poor. Let us bring our brothers with us and create a country for the all people. A country to give equal opportunity to children regardless of their parents choices or incomes. Children are innocent and disserve our best. Are we giving it to them? All of them?

Blessed are the poor, for they will inherit the earth.

You're on crack my man. How many of your dollars go into say state road improvement, verse how many of mine? Same for public works. Maybe I just need the police 10 times more than you do so I should pay more? No wait. Last time I checked the highest crime was in poor areas. So GTFO.

BTW. Your area needs better schools. Roam never burned :P

[J0E]

:lol:

Excellent post, Chuck!

[Boost_Junky]

You're on crack my man. How many of your dollars go into say state road improvement, verse how many of mine? Same for public works. Maybe I just need the police 10 times more than you do so I should pay more? No wait. Last time I checked the highest crime was in poor areas. So GTFO.

BTW. Your area needs better schools. Roam never burned

It would be easier to say I'm on crack than understand and agree with my view.

You are right, Rome burned not roam, it was a type-o. If you really don't think Rome burned, here is a link.

Great Fire of Rome

As for my area needing better schools, that is a bit crass. I could say that your area is need of better finishing. Correcting my spelling in this case in straining over a gnat while swallowing a camel.

Can you tell me the meaning behind my previously written statements? "Nero watched while Rome burned and bite your nose to spite your face." Allow me to elaborate. While the country falls into an uneducated, non competitive state, you seem to be fighting over a small change in your tax payment, while watching the country fall around you. Why cling to your tax dollar when the institution that gave you the ability or your family to earn that dollar crumbles. Are we creating an opportunity for children to succeed? Or do you have to have a wealthy family to have a chance at success? What about the American dream?

A huge misconception is that under developed nations are all poor people. In actuality they have similar ratio of wealth as us (1/10). It is our middle class that separates us, and our technology innovation. If we don't promote education and programs that give us a competitive advantage in a global market while maintaining a healthy middle class our economy will fall. We have an economy based on consumption. The consumer is the key in that equation.

Most kids today couldn’t tell me who Nero is. They wouldn’t catch that I capitalized a verb not a proper noun. They are falling behind in math and science and we are in big trouble. Unethical business practices have stifled our economy and the entry level positions these kids would be qualified for are disappearing overseas. Analysts will tell you that America doesn’t want those jobs anyway, but we are also not producing a new generation of white collar worker either.

Allow me to indulge your beer story. It is a challenge because in your example you are not talking about income, only spending. You have left out these key issues;

The guy spending the most on tax does so because he makes more money. In turn he has a higher tax bill. This is in relation to his income not in relation to the amount of resources he uses, i.e. roads, police or welfare. Although it could be argued that he does need that more. The use of such benefits him greater than the poor. It is evident in his portfolio sir. ZING

The guys spending the middle amounts on tax do so because they are in the middle income bracket. The taxes are also geared to give him deposable income which is the corner stone of our economic growth.

The poor have little income so they do not get taxed on nothing. Here is some math for you 23% of $0 = $0. By their use of police, welfare and other programs they are not hindering our society from operating as normal. Giving you, the rich, a chance to continue business as usual. How could you be successful if our entire nation was in a humanitarian crisis? You couldn’t. It’s called keeping the peace and it keeps you in business. Some of these poor may be the parents of our next great minds, if those kids are given a fair chance.

Of course the wealthy pay more taxes. My grandfather paid more tax in one year than I made in three. But he also has made more money than I make in 15 years. It’s all relative. I am a capitalist. I am an American. I want to make sure that we can stay healthy, strong and lead the world in morals, good business and technology.

Your beer example implies that we will scare the rich out of paying taxes, growing companies, creating jobs, and spending. News flash, the wealthy don’t do the most consumer spending. You may spend more than me in taxes, but you also take for granted the institution that gives you the freedom to do so. Your financial benefit is much greater than mine for the infrastructure America provides you with. That is why you pay more taxes than me.

Excellent post, Chuck!

Why is it an excellent post?

[Che'_Moderator]

I expect to pay more because I make more than you. Thats totally fair. x% of 500k > x% of 50k. NP there. But Why should I pay x% when you only have to pay y%? If we go to socialized healthcare do I get better doctors because I pay more? NO WAIT.... thats not how it works at all. I just get ass fucked and you get a free ride. PASS. The rest of my money will go off shores at that point

[flyfishing3]

The rest of my money will go off shores at that point

we're going to see more and more of that. unfortunately, thats not a joke.

[7 VII 7]

we're going to see more and more of that. unfortunately, thats not a joke.

Obama 08!!

[Che'_Moderator]

Obama 08!!

LOL. Hippies will love 09. 10 not so much

[7 VII 7]

LOL. Hippies will love 09. 10 not so much

I am glad I make $6.55 an hour

[Che'_Moderator]

I am glad I make $6.55 an hour

On paper I will too HAH

[Boost_Junky]

I expect to pay more because I make more than you. Thats totally fair. x% of 500k > x% of 50k. NP there. But Why should I pay x% when you only have to pay y%? If we go to socialized healthcare do I get better doctors because I pay more? NO WAIT.... thats not how it works at all. I just get ass fucked and you get a free ride. PASS. The rest of my money will go off shores at that point

How do I get a free ride with healthcare? My wife works for a hospital. My healthcare is great and we pay for it.

I don't agree with socialized healthcare as I assume you mean it. Nobody is proposing that. Accessible and affordable healthcare is necessary. Giving free and equal access is not going to work within our current system. Free does not equal affordable though.

Allow me to site Wikipedia’s definition of Noam Chomsky's view on social services;

"One can, of course, take the position that we don't care about the problems people face today, and want to think about a possible tomorrow. OK, but then don't pretend to have any interest in human beings and their fate, and stay in the seminar room and intellectual coffee house with other privileged people. Or one can take a much more humane position: I want to work, today, to build a better society for tomorrow -- the classical anarchist position, quite different from the slogans in the question. That's exactly right, and it leads directly to support for the people facing problems today: for enforcement of health and safety regulation, provision of national health insurance, support systems for people who need them, etc. That is not a sufficient condition for organizing for a different and better future, but it is a necessary condition. Anything else will receive the well-merited contempt of people who do not have the luxury to disregard the circumstances in which they live, and try to survive"

This country was founded by people escaping persecution of their beliefs. By popular decision we have freedoms like no other country, like our freedom of speech and classlessness. This popular ideology built America. It is a popular problem that healthcare is not affordable. It is necessary for America to take care of American’s. Our society and economy cannot survive without it. This is one of the meanings of “the poor shall inherit the earth.” It is very easy for the rich to let their riches rule their life. Mathew 9:24 “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." The poor outnumber the rich, and their will is stronger.

The answer is not to make a healthcare system that has bad doctors and long lines for care. That is a fear of many when mentioning social healthcare. I assume this is your understanding.

The answer is to slowly adapt our current system to accommodate the non-privileged and give them an opportunity to receive care. While still allowing the wealthy and paying citizens choice of premier doctors, care by the best hospitals and fast service. This is the same practice used by our legal system (public defender) and would be adequate for the slow adaptation of our healthcare system (public doctor).

Eventually we should grow our healthcare system to provide quick, easy, free access to all. However, that is far, far away and will not work now.

[Fudge_Brownie]

Most kids today couldn’t tell me who Nero is. They wouldn’t catch that I capitalized a verb not a proper noun. They are falling behind in math and science and we are in big trouble. Unethical business practices have stifled our economy and the entry level positions these kids would be qualified for are disappearing overseas. Analysts will tell you that America doesn’t want those jobs anyway, but we are also not producing a new generation of white collar worker either.

The poor have little income so they do not get taxed on nothing. Here is some math for you 23% of $0 = $0. By their use of police, welfare and other programs they are not hindering our society from operating as normal. Giving you, the rich, a chance to continue business as usual. How could you be successful if our entire nation was in a humanitarian crisis? You couldn’t. It’s called keeping the peace and it keeps you in business. Some of these poor may be the parents of our next great minds, if those kids are given a fair chance.

I went to a "good" highschool. Completely by chance, as when we moved in, the school was in rough shape. By the time I graduated, it had quite the reputation and was a popular choice-in school. But for what? I learned zero life skills. Jack about business, and very little about capitalism. And I knew plenty of kids who were offered the world. But they were lazy, and their parents were idiots. One specific drop-out I know was being watched by the school shortly before he dropped out. He was a grade behind and about to be two grades behind. They basically offered him the ability to 'warp' up to his grade if he simply showed improvements. Not even kidding, I have no idea how the hell that was supposed to work. But he was being offered tutoring by the school, my ex-girlfriend was on his case making sure he got his homework done, and helping him with it, his own girlfriend was pushing him to succeed as well. And I was busy making fun of him for being in class with his little sister. He's 20 years old, and has no GED and basically a 9th grade education. Since dropping out, everyone I know has pushed him to get his GED and he still hasn't. So maybe I should throw some tax dollars his way to help give him some more opportunities. Or I can wait a few years and ask him to make it a large.

LOL. Hippies will love 09. 10 not so much

:lol: :lol:

[Che'_Moderator]

LOL. The fact you think we live in a classless society says it all.

[Boost_Junky]

LOL. The fact you think we live in a classless society says it all.

I see what you mean. Allow me to explain. I used "freedom of speech" and "classlessness" as defined by American policy and social interaction.

I don't feel we have a full freedom of speech or classlessness. We are just the closest to it in the world.

[Boost_Junky]

I went to a "good" highschool. Completely by chance, as when we moved in, the school was in rough shape. By the time I graduated, it had quite the reputation and was a popular choice-in school. But for what? I learned zero life skills. Jack about business, and very little about capitalism. And I knew plenty of kids who were offered the world. But they were lazy, and their parents were idiots. One specific drop-out I know was being watched by the school shortly before he dropped out. He was a grade behind and about to be two grades behind. They basically offered him the ability to 'warp' up to his grade if he simply showed improvements. Not even kidding, I have no idea how the hell that was supposed to work. But he was being offered tutoring by the school, my ex-girlfriend was on his case making sure he got his homework done, and helping him with it, his own girlfriend was pushing him to succeed as well. And I was busy making fun of him for being in class with his little sister. He's 20 years old, and has no GED and basically a 9th grade education. Since dropping out, everyone I know has pushed him to get his GED and he still hasn't. So maybe I should throw some tax dollars his way to help give him some more opportunities. Or I can wait a few years and ask him to make it a large.

If his breeds, worry about his kids. You have expressed that he has had more than a fair chance at success as measured by your standards. However, should he go hungry, be sick or die in the streets?

[Fudge_Brownie]

If his breeds, worry about his kids. You have expressed that he has had more than a fair chance at success as measured by your standards. However, should he go hungry, be sick or die in the streets?

Yes.